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        riddles >> what am i >> Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with eye
        
(Message started by: turtler7 on Aug 20^th, 2003, 1:21pm)

Title: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with eye
Post by turtler7 on Aug 20^th, 2003, 1:21pm

1.What has roots as nobody sees, is taller than trees, up, up it goes, and yet never grows?

2.Voiceless it cries, wingless it flutters, toothless it bites, mouthless it mutters, what is it?

3.What can be seen with the naked eye, takes up no space, and if u put it in a basket it makes the basket lighter?

The bottom one was on a T.V. show about probably 6 years ago. I havnt seen it forever. I think it was called "Are you afraid of the dark?" on Nick. So if you freaqeunted that show maybe it will come back to you if not it is a good puzzler.

1&2 are both from the same sorce that i will reveil once it is answered. I dont want to make it easy if someone cant figure them out.

// Title changed by moderator to be more descriptive of contents //

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by Speaker on Aug 21^st, 2003, 1:33am

Well, I don't watch that show, but maybe number 3 is [hide]a hole[/hide].

As for number 1. maybe a [hide]mountain[/hide].

Number 2 is [hide] the wind. I think that all those verbs can be used to describe the things that the wind does. So, I say the wind. [/hide]

I always like to go first. Even if I don't know the answers. ;D

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by Icarus on Aug 22^nd, 2003, 3:49pm

That may well be the intended answer for 1, but if so, the clue is mistaken. They grow.

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by turtler7 on Aug 22^nd, 2003, 8:20pm

The first two are from the hobit and if u feel the clues are wrong take it up with them :P
A volcano grows but mountains dont grow. What sediments build on them to make them any larger are generally whethered away there or other parts whethered away. I dont believe they grow... Maybe shrink a little. If you see a diferent point on how they grow feel free to elaborate that for me.

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by Icarus on Aug 23^rd, 2003, 6:43pm

It's been a while since I last read The Hobbit. Now that you mention it, I do recall this riddle. However, my great esteem for J.R.R. Tolkein and strong distaste for spiritism both forbid that I should attempt to dispute with him. Besides which - the mountains in Middle-Earth indeed do not grow.

But this is not Middle-Earth. Here many mountains grow, and not just volcanos. For example, If I recall correctly, the Himilayas, the Cascades, the Sierra Nevadas, and the Andies are all growing. The Alps may be too, but I don't know. I'm sure there are several other growing ranges.

If mountains did not grow, they would of ceased to exist long ago.

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by turtler7 on Aug 24^th, 2003, 5:37am

i would say it depends on how the mountain formed. If it is on a fault line or cause by tectonic plates then its likly to grow. If they were formed by other methods such as volcanos that have long gone inactive it is likly to shink at the top and build up at its base. This is what happened with the appalation mountains in the U.S. they have rounded off at the top due to whethering and most of the sediments build up on its base making its slop more gradual still.

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by wowbagger on Aug 24^th, 2003, 8:24am

on 08/23/03 at 18:43:53, Icarus wrote:

Here many mountains grow, and not just volcanos. For example, If I recall correctly, the Himilayas, the Cascades, the Sierra Nevadas, and the Andies are all growing. The Alps may be too, but I don't know. I'm sure there are several other growing ranges.

I've just found out that the Alps are indeed still growing - by about 1mm per year. The reason for this - the tectonic plate of Africa pushing northward against Europe - is actually also causing countries like Switzerland to become smaller. I read that data from topographic measurements shows that the north-south extension shrinks by ca. 3mm a year. (Don't know about the precision of these measurements though. ;))

Quote:

If mountains did not grow, they would of ceased to exist long ago.

Not if they are young enough! ::)

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by Icarus on Aug 24^th, 2003, 11:47am

I did not say that all mountains are currently growing, only that they can grow and many are growing. If I had meant such a thing, I would have said so, rather than listing ranges that I know of that are growing. And I certainly would not have said I didn't know about the Alps - thanks for the info, wowbagger.

And if mountains did not grow, then there could not be any "young enough" to still be around.

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by wowbagger on Aug 25^th, 2003, 4:19am

on 08/24/03 at 11:47:02, Icarus wrote:

And if mountains did not grow, then there could not be any "young enough" to still be around.

At the risk of attracting creationists: They could have been created to be around - or would that also be "growing"? ;)

Title: Re: 3 riddles i found missing.
Post by Icarus on Aug 25^th, 2003, 5:51pm

I know many creationists, and they are not as witless as they are commonly portrayed. In fact, they often have a better concept of scientific theory than those they conflict with. Many are highly intelligent. (There are plenty of exceptions of course, and these are the ones whose remarks are made much of by their detractors.) The main difference between these intelligent creationists and their opponents is that there is a certain body of evidence that the creationists accept wholeheartedly in their theories, and that evolutionists reject completely. It has been my observation that both the acceptance and the rejection are based mostly on philosophical grounds, rather than scientific ones. Mostly the grounds are religious for both sides, but not completely.

And yes, if you believe in a young age for the earth, however it was created, then there could still be mountains around without any growth. This exactly fits the situation for middle-earth, once again showing that the riddle worked for Gollum and Bilbo, but does not work for us.

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Noke Lieu on Mar 15^th, 2004, 10:14pm

Just to return to the riddles,
it would seem that number 3 is [hide] a hole [/hide]

just to return to the distraction, and see if any geologists have entered the fray...

Mountains definately grow. Or so we were told. Thing that I find interesting is:
if you say it grows at 5mm a year, presumably that's from sea level. That means the mountain, (assume is square based pyramid) just got A LOT HEAVIER. How much, that's up to you. And belongs in another section.
The mantle is disturbingly soft, so the mountain sinks slightly into the mantle. Which means it grows faster than 5mm a year, no? Its all relative, I guess.

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by towr on Mar 16^th, 2004, 1:27am

on 03/15/04 at 22:14:25, Noke Lieu wrote:

Mountains definately grow. Or so we were told.

It really depends on the mountain wether it grows. Or rather whether the two tectonic plates reponsible for forming it are still pushing against each other. And of course it depends on the weather in the area. Rain can wear a mountain, and of course a large difference in temperature, feezing and thawing (water gets in the cracks, during winter it freezes and expands making bigger cracks, in summer it thaws and pieces start falling off).

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Icarus on Mar 16^th, 2004, 4:47pm

Yes. Non-volcanic mountains that grow are growing because they are being pushed up from below, so the added weight is not a problem. It just counteracts the push a little. Since the forces pushing it are extremely powerful, this is not a major contribution, however. What stops these uplift mountains from growing is when the pressure is relieved, usually because the plate has started moving in a different direction.

However, large volcanos have exactly the effect you mentioned of depressing the crust around them. While volcanos on earth never get large enough to have more than modest effect, I have heard that the great shield volcanos on Mars are in the middle of huge depressions, attributed to exactly this effect.

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Cathos on Mar 16^th, 2004, 5:53pm

Off topic (or is it back on topic), I've seen a similar riddle for #2 with the answer of [hide]arrow[/hide] I think it fits, except for muttering. Is the intended answer indeed [hide]wind[/hide]?

I'm a little confused at how mountains have roots. Are the roots the rock that it's built up from? The earth itself? I've never heard someone refer to the roots of a mountain.

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Speaker on Mar 17^th, 2004, 12:56am

I think they just mean that the mountain is firmly set in the ground (firmly rooted).

But, maybe they mean that all the trees on the mountain have grown roots that project into the mountain, and therefore are part of the mountain.

Maybe, etymologically speaking, the roots that mountain has are "mons" and "mont" which are latin from which we derive the word mountain, they are its roots.

Maybe there is a mathematical value for mountains, which we could use to calculate their equal factors or something...

Well, that's hats :P

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Robert Younger on Mar 17^th, 2004, 4:13pm

Numbers 1 and two are easy. Im only twelve and I know theme.

At first i thought no3 was Nothing, but i did not catch the first part. :-[

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Noke Lieu on Mar 17^th, 2004, 4:50pm

Mr Pitt.
Now there's a reference that will go over most 12 yo american heads...

the answer to no 3, at least as far as I can figure it is up already. Posted by some witty, handsome, charming fellow... :D

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Speaker on Mar 17^th, 2004, 5:12pm

Hello Robert Younger

The answer to number 3 is nothing. Just a specially defined amount of nothing. So, you were on the right track. ;)

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Icarus on Mar 17^th, 2004, 8:18pm

on 03/16/04 at 17:53:19, Cathos wrote:

I'm a little confused at how mountains have roots. Are the roots the rock that it's built up from? The earth itself? I've never heard someone refer to the roots of a mountain.

You've never heard that? I thought it was a common "poetic device". Maybe it is just that I have read The Lord of the Rings so many times over the years. Tolkien makes use of the phrase many times, including the riddle in The Hobbit from which #1 derives.

The roots of a mountain are the deepests areas of its interior. Since the bottom of a mountain is not well-defined, this may be taken as extending below the surrounding countryside.

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Cathos on Mar 17^th, 2004, 9:07pm

I've never read Lord of the Rings (though I did read the Hobbit when I was quite young). I treid to read the fellowship about three times, but I gave up because I thought the beginning was incredibly boring (the birthday party and all). I'm told it get's more exciting, perhaps one of these days I'll try again. Untill then, I'll stick to Feist, recommended for those of you who like the "Tolkein" genre.
:)

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Icarus on Mar 18^th, 2004, 3:52pm

LotR is not for the impatient. But if you got bogged down in the birthday party, then you are a long way from being able to read this one. Alas, J.R.R Tolkein believed in developing his characters and scene fully before engaging in the action.

Actually, my favorite chapters from Fellowship of the Ring are not the action ones, but the two that are pivotal for setting up the story: "Shadow of the Past" (just after the birthday party), and "The council of Elrond".

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Cathos on Mar 18^th, 2004, 7:21pm

Yea, I always admired that in The Hobbit. I guess I just don't have the mentality to work my way through the fellowship. I think if I did though, that I'd have to read the whole thing, and the Semorillian and all the others. I've sort of got an "all or nothing" attitude when it comes to things like that, which usually leads me to the "nothing" part. :(

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Noke Lieu on Mar 18^th, 2004, 7:41pm

on 03/17/04 at 17:12:28, Speaker wrote:

The answer to number 3 is nothing. Just a specially defined amount of nothing.

Hang on. I realise that this is probably going to be somewherelse, but:
How do you see any amount of nothing?
An amount of *nothing* will have no affect on the light going through it/round it/whatever. So how do you see it?

still prefer a hole- it is a sort of nothing- at least a lack of the surrounding entity. I realise that if you put a hole in say, a plastic bag, it doesn't necessarily become lighter. But if its a plastic bag full of water...

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Cathos on Mar 18^th, 2004, 9:06pm

Well, if you tore a hole in a bag, it wouldn't make it lighter, but for a basket, you'd have to drill a hole or otherwise remove material, making it lighter even if nothing inside was able to leek out. (ok, with some sorts of weave, you coerce a hole by pulling apart the side, but let's not nitpick)

You can't see nothing by itself, but if there's a bit of nothing through something, like a hole, then you'll be able to see that it's not there, or that it is there, or however you want to look at it.

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by raven on Mar 18^th, 2004, 9:30pm

on 08/20/03 at 13:21:21, turtler7 wrote:

3.What can be seen with the naked eye, takes up no space, and if u put it in a basket it makes the basket lighter?

:: [hide]LUMINANCE[/hide] ::
of course, maybe this could be said to take up space

::)

Title: Re: Roots nobody sees/Voiceless it cries/Seen with
Post by Icarus on Mar 19^th, 2004, 3:43pm

The intended answer is "hole". Speaker's comments were a hint, not a statement of the solution. A hole is a "specially defined amount of nothing", after all!

And the hole makes the basket lighter by spilling its contents!