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        general >> truth >> descrimination against  Trans exuals
        
(Message started by: puzzlecracker on Oct 4th, 2007, 1:30pm)
Title: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by puzzlecracker on Oct 4th, 2007, 1:30pm
In a Time article (www dot time dot com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1667830,00 dot html?xid=rss-topstories)
I find the following statement despicable and outright wrong.  

Quote:
The Employment Nondiscrimination Act would make it illegal for employers to make decisions about hiring, firing, promoting or paying an employee based on se xual orientation or gender identity. Churches and the military would be exempt.


The very institutions that represents the fabric of this society, promoting freedom in all regards,  openly discriminate against people  - minorities I might add - with atypical s exual orientations.


Thoughts?
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 4th, 2007, 3:38pm

on 10/04/07 at 13:30:31, puzzlecracker wrote:
Thoughts?

Why are you suddenly so bothered about minorities?
You daily discriminate against half the population on this planet and think it is perfectly acceptable!
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by puzzlecracker on Oct 4th, 2007, 5:16pm
off-topic, If you're referring to women - I love them, a lot! If you want continue that though, there is already infamously existing thread; hence let's take it there. Otherwise,  I am curious what people think about the above claims....

Thoughts?
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by towr on Oct 5th, 2007, 12:44am
I don't get, that act is to make it illegal to discriminate; so what's the problem?
Or are you suggesting that the churches and military, which are exempt, are those "very institutions that represents the fabric of this society"? (They're not)

I really haven't a clue what you want to discuss.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ima1trkpny on Oct 5th, 2007, 1:22am
Well, while I in no way promote discrimination against trans*xuals, Churches are private institutions seperate from the government and have the right to choose who to hire or fire based on their own criteria, and it is quite frankly none of the goverments business to interfere with that. It is no different from private colleges or any other institution to choose who to admit by their own standards... if they aren't government funded, the goverment has no business butting in unless ILLEGAL action is taking place. And this doesn't qualify as illegal, in fact it would be unconstitutional for the government to step in. Whether we disagree with their views or not, people have a right to believe and practice their beliefs as they will as long as they aren't harming others. "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" (Voltaire) is one of the most fundamental ideas to democracy.

As for the military, a distinction must be made. The military does not go around trying to find and weed out trans*xuals or people with non-heteros*xual orientations. It is called the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy for a reason. In the military, it is not encouraged to have relationships among soldiers (even male-female) because they interfere with the disciplined working relationship demanded to maintain military discipline. So the idea is that no one should be talking about their s*xual orientation because it will cause the whole dynamic to shift. How effective a soldier would a person be if they were distracted by trying to show off for a potential lover or worse, watched a lover die? For this reason women are not allowed on the front lines either! This is not discrimination, just a necessary code of privacy.

I've many trans*xual or otherwise oriented friends, but I don't feel it is appropriate to be running down the street shouting "I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm gay!" and that the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy isn't unreasonable for the same reason the same friends would look at me like I was nuts if I took off going down the street shouting "I'm straight! I'm straight! I'm straight!" (Reverse discrimination?) There is a reason those sorts of things are called Private matters... they should be your business and no one elses.
I see no problem with the aforementioned article for the above reasons... use some logic instead of getting all inflammed and throwing around words like discrimination.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by towr on Oct 5th, 2007, 4:34am

on 10/05/07 at 01:22:44, ima1trkpny wrote:
Whether we disagree with their views or not, people have a right to believe and practice their beliefs as they will as long as they aren't harming others.
But discriminating against people, in itself, can harm them. If you hear "You can't join our club because you're <insert something someone has no control over being>" often enough it can do serious psychological damage to a person.
(Contrariwise, forcing people to go against their beliefs can also do psychological damage, so really it's a no-win situation until people grow to have more tolerant beliefs and shed the desire to join groups that don't want them as members.)
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ima1trkpny on Oct 5th, 2007, 7:56am

on 10/05/07 at 04:34:40, towr wrote:
But discriminating against people, in itself, can harm them. If you hear "You can't join our club because you're <insert something someone has no control over being>" often enough it can do serious psychological damage to a person.
(Contrarywise, forcing people to go against their beliefs can also do psychological damage, so really it's a no-win situation until people grow to have more tolerant beliefs and shed the desire to join groups that don't want them as members.)

I fully understand, however since the group is a private institution, they have a right to their own beliefs and criteria, regardless of either your opinion or mine. Also, continuing with the religious examples, some of them view trans*xuality as a sin. Therefore it shouldn't even be an issue, since the trans*xuals who supposedly want to be hired by them have different views. I can hope for and aim for more tolerant views, but I will never support forcing people to change their views. They will only resent the pressure and you could be setting up far more dangerous situations for trans*xuals, when people feel that the only way to solve their problem and maintain their views is by resorting to violence.
<edit> Just correcting the minor grammar errors that set off my obsessive compulsive proof reader side.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by JiNbOtAk on Oct 5th, 2007, 7:41pm
By banning a certain forum member who had proven to be annoying time and again, are we discriminating against him ? Are we, as members of wu very popular riddles / puzzles forum, discrimnating against underage annoying trolls ?  :P
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 5th, 2007, 8:08pm

on 10/05/07 at 19:41:44, JiNbOtAk wrote:
By banning a certain forum member who had proven to be annoying time and again, are we discriminating against him ?

No, we are merely being discriminating.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 9th, 2007, 11:51pm
BTW, I find it inquisitionally prudish that this forum censors the word 'http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/rms.gifhttp://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/rme.gifhttp://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/rmx.gif'.
This is supposed to be a medium of free speech, hosted by a world-renowned and highly respected academic institution, and yet the very means by which we we all came into existence is considered by its own progeny to be an act that dare not speak its name!
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by towr on Oct 10th, 2007, 3:11am
It's not the forum that censors it, it's the server. Just like it's the server that filters against 'spam'.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 10th, 2007, 9:49am

on 10/10/07 at 03:11:51, towr wrote:
It's not the forum that censors it, it's the server. Just like it's the server that filters against 'spam'.

Pedant!   :P
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by towr on Oct 10th, 2007, 10:47am

on 10/10/07 at 09:49:31, ThudanBlunder wrote:
Pedant!   :P
Well, not entirely. If the problem lay with the forum, it would be William's fault. But as it is, it's something out of his control.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ima1trkpny on Oct 10th, 2007, 12:37pm

on 10/09/07 at 23:51:41, ThudanBlunder wrote:
hosted by a world-renowned and highly respected academic institution


Towr, I don't think he was ever blaming William in the first place... he was/is blaming UC Berkeley.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by JP05 on Oct 10th, 2007, 12:56pm
I don't intent to take part in this discussion but from what I am reading all this has seem to do with SPAM and on this note I registered a yahoo email when I first signed up for this form back whenever and have never used the yahoo email for anything but to receive that first confirmation email from the forum and to receive notifications from my posts.

But, there has been tons of SPAM delivered to it that email address. So, if this is the case then how are the spammers tapping into our email addresses which are supposed to be private? Or is this about spammers spamming through the private message system (which would then be forwarded to our email)?  
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by towr on Oct 10th, 2007, 1:10pm

on 10/10/07 at 12:37:25, ima1trkpny wrote:
Towr, I don't think he was ever blaming William in the first place... he was/is blaming UC Berkeley.
I don't think he was blaming anyone, rather just venting frustration.
But who knows what other people might start thinking ;)


on 10/10/07 at 12:56:18, JP05 wrote:
I don't intent to take part in this discussion but from what I am reading all this has seem to do with SPAM and on this note I registered a yahoo email when I first signed up for this form back whenever and have never used the yahoo email for anything but to receive that first confirmation email from the forum and to receive notifications from my posts.

But, there has been tons of SPAM delivered to it that email address. So, if this is the case then how are the spammers tapping into our email addresses which are supposed to be private?
Well, there should not be a way they could have gotten your email address from this forum if you don't have it set to public. However, even when no one knows your address it may still end up getting spammed. For example they could simply be guessing usernames, try out every word in the dictionary, lists of names, etc. And, one way that I get spam a lot, the server they send spam to redirects messages to whatever username comes closest.
And once any spammer knows a mail-address exists, it gets listed and spread.


Quote:
Or is this about spammers spamming through the private message system (which would then be forwarded to our email)?
The filters on the servers are intended to stop any spamming via the server, be it on message boards, via PM systems, or anything else. Any data send to the server is scanned (afaik).
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by JP05 on Oct 10th, 2007, 1:31pm
Appreciate the clarification. There is probably a spy in yahoo getting paid $ to supply email addresses.

Also, just about every time I look at the main page of this forum, there is always a newest member with the name  nowXXXX@gmail.com  and if you look at the last couple of pages of the member list you can see someone bombing the forum this way.

Wow, I just checked more of the member list and there are tons of members with the names  nowXXXX@gmail.com

now190@gmail.com was just made right now.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ima1trkpny on Oct 10th, 2007, 1:47pm

on 10/10/07 at 13:31:52, JP05 wrote:
Also, just about every time I look at the main page of this forum, there is always a newest member with the name  nowXXXX@gmail.com  and if you look at the last couple of pages of the member list you can see someone bombing the forum this way.

Wow, I just checked more of the member list and there are tons of members with the names  nowXXXX@gmail.com

now190@gmail.com was just made right now.


Yeah,This (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1190245178;start=0#0) has been a problem that's been going on for several weeks... William cleaned up a fair bit, but they are still making more... so until they figure out how to stop it, I guess it just has to be tolerated.
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by JiNbOtAk on Oct 10th, 2007, 6:05pm

on 10/10/07 at 12:56:18, JP05 wrote:
But, there has been tons of SPAM delivered to it that email address. So, if this is the case then how are the spammers tapping into our email addresses which are supposed to be private? Or is this about spammers spamming through the private message system (which would then be forwarded to our email)?  


Hmm, can't say I have that problem, since the email address that I used to register to this forum wasn't spammed. ( Not heavily anyway, since I've never done anything to those spam mails, other than deleting them ).

As our resident dressage rider commented, the xxx@gmail.com problem had been plaguing us for several weeks now. It's discussed here (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1190245178;start=).
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ThudanBlunder on Jan 14th, 2008, 3:12pm

on 10/04/07 at 13:30:31, puzzlecracker wrote:
Thoughts?

What do you expect - a Be Nice to a Tranny Week?  
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by mikedagr8 on Jan 14th, 2008, 10:43pm

on 01/14/08 at 15:12:47, ThudanBlunder wrote:
What do you expect - a Be Nice to a Tranny Week?  

Depends on where you live. Good though. :)
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by ThudanBlunder on Jan 15th, 2008, 10:18am

on 01/14/08 at 22:43:46, mikedagr8 wrote:
Depends on where you live.

Up here it's true that the Church likes its vice versa, but the military would have them playing hopscotch on the minefields.   ;D
Title: Re: descrimination against  Trans exuals
Post by mikedagr8 on Jan 15th, 2008, 3:14pm

on 01/15/08 at 10:18:17, ThudanBlunder wrote:
Up here the Church likes its vice versa, and the military would have them playing hopscotch on the minefields.   ;D

Well, the military seems like they can't use royalty to lead them into battle anymore, so I guess it's an alternative. Shame if you ask me. ::)


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