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        riddles >> what happened >> Homocide?
        
(Message started by: iono on Oct 26^th, 2007, 11:39pm)

Title: Homocide?
Post by iono on Oct 26^th, 2007, 11:39pm

Tim and Joe are enemies and are the only ones left in the office building where they work, aside from security. Tim just found out he was terminally ill. Joe keeps a gun in a drawer in his desk. He has a short temper. That gun is the only weapon in the room. Suddenly, the security guards hear a gunshot. Two guards come up to Tim and Joe's office. The door is open and Tim has been shot dead, with a gun near him. Joe is nowhere to be found. They call the police and, then look around. Nothing is out of place. Guard A says Joe killed Tim, because everyone knows they're enemies..However, Guard B notices something and concludes Tim killed himself. And a moment later, Joe comes back from the restroom. All the time, he was listening to loud music from his mp3.
You can figure the question, right?

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by gotit on Oct 27^th, 2007, 1:44am

[hide]The two points below are based on the assumption that Joe is not a fool.

i) If Joe and Tim are alone in the office, Joe would never kill Tim because he knows that if he does kill Tim, he would be the prime suspect.
ii)Even if he does kill Tim, he would never drop his gun on the spot.[/hide]

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by Grimbal on Oct 27^th, 2007, 10:05am

Maybe Joe's drawer has been broken open?

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by iono on Oct 27^th, 2007, 10:48am

Gotit's answers are valid, but not the intended answer. (Joe isn't a fool, but he has a short temper, so he does things he later regrets. Stupid things.
The drawer is not locked. however, it does have something to do with the intended answer

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by gotit on Oct 27^th, 2007, 11:24am

[hide]There was a suicide note in the drawer[/hide]

OR

[hide]The contents of the drawer were scattered which showed that someone had searched for the gun. If Joe had opeed the drawer, he would not have scattered things as he would know where exactly the gun was.[/hide]

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by iono on Oct 27^th, 2007, 12:17pm

on 10/27/07 at 11:24:19, gotit wrote:

no suicide note.
the gun is the only thing in the drawer.
Try imagining the scenario if Joe did kll Tim.
Remember, the guards found nothing out of place

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by gotit on Oct 27^th, 2007, 2:06pm

[hide]May be Tim's body was lying too close to the drawer. Had Joe shot him, his body might have been at some distance from the drawer. I am considering the distance factor because if Joe had shot Tim and Tim was present near Joe at that point of time, he would have struggled for his life and that could have put things out of order.[/hide]

Title: Re: Homicide?
Post by FiBsTeR on Oct 27^th, 2007, 3:08pm

[hide]If Joe had killed Tim, he would have closed the door. ([E]_{Although if you were committing suicide you might want to close the door as well...}[/E])Suicide is also corroborated when they see that Joe is still in the building; he would have ran if he had committed murder.[/hide]

Although you could never assume that a person is not guilty simply because circumstances don't appear to match what "should occur" if he was guilty.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by denis on Oct 27^th, 2007, 8:25pm

[hide]In most cases, the one shooting the gun will have powder residue on their hand from the gun shot. It would be easy to show that Tim's hand has this powder residue matching the gun[/hide]

Also

[hide] Perhaps the wound at the back of Tim's head is really an exit wound, in which case, it would be almost impossible for Joe to shoot Tim through his open mouth unless Tim wanted to die in the first place[/hide]

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by iono on Oct 27^th, 2007, 8:27pm

on 10/27/07 at 14:06:53, gotit wrote:

No. his body is far from the drawer

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by FiBsTeR on Oct 27^th, 2007, 8:39pm

(Deleted. Oops!) :-X

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by denis on Oct 27^th, 2007, 9:07pm

on 10/27/07 at 20:39:49, FiBsTeR wrote:

Unless [hide]Joe shot Tim, then Joe put the gun in Tim's hand and fired a second shot, in which case Tim's hand would test positive for the residue while Joe is in the bathroom washing his off.[/hide]

on 10/26/07 at 23:39:45, iono wrote:

Suddenly, the security guards hear a gunshot.

As far as I can tell, there was only one gunshot.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by FiBsTeR on Oct 27^th, 2007, 9:54pm

Recanted. :-X

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by Grimbal on Oct 28^th, 2007, 7:42am

[hideb]Note that "However, Guard B notices something and concludes Tim killed himself." was before Joe came back. Guard B noticed that Joe was not present. He later retracted his conclusion when seeing Joe.[/hideb]

or

[hideb]Joe had a short temper. He could not have entered the room calmly as he did if he had just committed murder.[/hideb]

or

Guard B noticed on Joe's desk a picture of 2 children, one of them he recognizes as himself. He understands that Joe is his brother that he hasn't seen since the war when their parents died and they had been adopted separately. He cannot possibly accuse Joe. He claims it is suicide.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by Iceman on Oct 28^th, 2007, 12:40pm

on 10/26/07 at 23:39:45, iono wrote:

You can figure the question, right?

Yes. I just can't figure out the answer. :P

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by thecow135 on Oct 28^th, 2007, 3:58pm

does the title have a hint to the answer? maybe they were gay lovers?

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by FiBsTeR on Oct 28^th, 2007, 5:44pm

Haha, I though it was a typo, but that could very well be it! I actually changed the title in one of my posts above.

I wonder what the security guard saw that would make him think that... :-X

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by gotit on Oct 29^th, 2007, 4:05am

[hide]A lot of dust had accumulated in the drawer. And Tim's hand had the dust marks[/hide].

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by Ghost Sniper on Oct 29^th, 2007, 4:57am

[hide]If it was a murder, Joe would have ran to the police and told them that Tim committed suicide. Also, if Joe knew Tim committed suicide, he would also run to the police and tell them that. However, since he had loud Mp3 music on, he did not hear the gunshot, and therefore did not know that Tim committed suicide, and therefore did not run to tell the police.[/hide]

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by iono on Oct 31^st, 2007, 8:23pm

No. The guards found the door open because Joe didn't bother closing the door on his way out. If he had took the gun out of the drawer and shot Tim, he probably wouldn't have bothered to close something else.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by mikedagr8 on Oct 31^st, 2007, 8:33pm

on 10/31/07 at 20:23:26, iono wrote:

he probably wouldn't have bothered to close something else.

Just a guess, window, computer window, program on computer. Got a blank mind at the moment.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by iono on Oct 31^st, 2007, 9:31pm

Computer is off. Nothing to do with electronics. Just to clarify, "nothing out of place" pens and pencils in the right place, fax machine not faxing anything, you can't see old papers because they're in their drawers, etc.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by mikedagr8 on Nov 1^st, 2007, 12:10am

Did he forget to else? :-/

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by denis on Nov 1^st, 2007, 8:39am

[hide]Perhaps the drawer was closed. Had it been Joe who picked up the gun and shot Tim, he would not have bothered to close it[/hide]

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by gotit on Nov 1^st, 2007, 8:49am

iono, i haven't got your response from you regarding my last post.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by iono on Nov 4^th, 2007, 3:57pm

on 11/01/07 at 08:49:47, gotit wrote:

iono, i haven't got your response from you regarding my last post.

He keeps his desk very clean

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by iono on Nov 4^th, 2007, 3:58pm

on 11/01/07 at 08:39:41, denis wrote:

[hide]Perhaps the drawer was closed. Had it been Joe who picked up the gun and shot Tim, he would not have bothered to close it[/hide]

Correct

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by JiNbOtAk on Nov 4^th, 2007, 5:38pm

Joe : Tim, I heard you have a really cool gun ?
Tim : Not that it's any of your business, but yeah, wanna see it ?
Joe : Sure, why not ?
(Tim opens the drawer, take the gun, closes the drawer, and gave it to Joe)
Tim : Here, be careful, I didn't remove the bullets.
Joe : Really ?
(BAM!)
Joe : Sorry kiddo, just had to waste you.
(Joe put on his mp3 player, walked out to the washroom, to clean his hands with detergent to remove the GSR)

<Nitpick, nitpick ;D>

Title: Re: Homicide?
Post by denis on Nov 4^th, 2007, 6:01pm

I agree with Jinbotak.

The drawer being closed, although the intended answer in this case, is a weak circumstancial piece of evidence that would need supporting evidence (.e.g forensic evidence) to really hold up in court. It can be used as a clue or a lead to help determine what might have occured but it would not be central in cracking the case.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by FiBsTeR on Nov 4^th, 2007, 6:13pm

I doubt you could consider it circumstantial evidence either; would someone who commits suicide bother to close the drawer, knowing that it won't matter in a few seconds?

Either way, there's nothing to conclude, really.

Title: Re: Homocide?
Post by sxiz on Dec 21^st, 2007, 1:23pm

on 11/04/07 at 18:13:07, FiBsTeR wrote:

I doubt you could consider it circumstantial evidence either; would someone who commits suicide bother to close the drawer, knowing that it won't matter in a few seconds?

Maybe he was a neat freak.