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        riddles >> what happened >> For a few dollars more
        
(Message started by: Iceman on Mar 29th, 2007, 1:21pm)
Title: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 29th, 2007, 1:21pm
The story takes place in 17th century. Corrupted sergeant Angel Eyes and his men are pursuing Blondie, because of the moneybags he has with him. So Blondie arrives on his horse at the Sad Hill cemetery, which strict rules prohibit altering its outlook in any respect, trying to preserve architect's sentimental idea it captures. The cemetery has orderly arranged graves, forming a circle. To be more exact, the cemetery looks like two concentric circles, the outer and the inner circle. Both circles are large, and there are many graves between them. In front of this cemetery is a town called Big Whisky, ruled by sheriff and his deputies. The town's rule number one is, that every visitor must surrender his firearms for the duration of the visit, and then allow a thorough inspection of all other items he has with him. And since the cemetery is right between Big Whisky and Blondie's pursuers, who are about two hours away, he finds himself in a sandwich, as there are no other places to go from there. So he decides to bury the money in one of the graves. But much to his dismay, he thinks to himself right then, all the graves are identical to detail, and this is a well-known fact! Not only that, they all have the same name 'unknown' facing the same direction, that is, the center of the inner circle. Blondie also knows, that Angel Eyes is thorough, and that he would search every inch of the cemetery, looking for the smallest detail, which might give away the location of the money. But what he also knows is that, even though persistent, Angel Eyes wouldn't dig all of the graves, as their number repels even the most persistent ones. But the other facet of this situation, when Blondie returns, how would he remember in which grave the money is, since he mustn't break the apparent order of the graves? So he has two hours to try to figure it out, that is, in which grave he would bury the bags, so the keen sergeant wouldn't find it, and Blondie himself would. He thinks about it, and also about his woman he loves direly. She is also in Big Whisky, waiting for him to take her in a bigger, prosperous city, and then it hits him! So, he buries the money in a grave, being very careful about not to disturb its identical look with all other graves. Then he leaves for the Big Whisky. Angel Eyes assumed he would bury the money in one of the graves, because of the Big Whisky's laws. So when they arrived, Angel Eyes was indeed thorough, in that, he spent two days there, walking in circles from the outer to the inner circle, giving each grave his full attention. Finally, he quits, and then visits Big Whisky for the last time, just to acknowledge the apparent victory to Blondie. He might be corrupted, but not all the way, as he is not a bad loser, plus he does have certain principles. So, about two weeks after this touching scene, as Blondie and his soul mate had certain things to do in Big Whisky, they ride out of the town. Blondie digs the money the same day by digging one grave only, and the couple continues riding rich to the city of their dreams. How did Blondie beat Angel Eyes?      





Note that Blondie didn't have a compass, and digging is impossible in the center of the cemetery w/o graves, as that was another architect's idea.  ;)
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Grimbal on Mar 29th, 2007, 2:36pm
[hide]He buried the money in the center of the circle.  The dead center.[/hide]
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by denis on Mar 29th, 2007, 2:37pm

on 03/29/07 at 13:21:06, Iceman wrote:
So when they arrived, Angel Eyes was indeed thorough, in that, he spent two days there, walking in circles from the outer to the inner circle, giving each grave his full attention. Finally, he quits,


[hide]he put it right in the center of the circle where Angel Eye would not look[/hide]

[edit] Grimbal and I cross posted...and seems we both think alike[edit]
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 30th, 2007, 7:18am

on 03/29/07 at 14:37:12, denis wrote:
[edit] Grimbal and I cross posted...and seems we both think alike[edit]

Maybe you think alike, but you think wrong.  :P




on 03/29/07 at 14:36:58, Grimbal wrote:
[hide]He buried the money in the center of the circle.  The dead center.[/hide]

[hide]A good idea, but I said that Blondie dug a grave, not the dead center. So you see, I cannot accept your answer. Not a bad answer, but if Angel Eyes dug one whole there, it probably was not the grave, rather the dead center. Angel Eyes is not from yesterday, so if all graves looked the same to him, I think he would consider strongly your idea. Only his men are dumb, as he is the brain.  
[/hide]



Btw, how you figure he would [hide]determine the center with certainty? I suppose this is quite simple: he makes two lines with his boot or he uses rope. Where two lines cross, that is the center. Is that it, or you had in mind some other technique?

Another thing occurs to me.. He determines the above center. And then he uses his compass, and walks North twelve steps, where he buries the money. I worded the riddle just fine, but let me add two things, just so I exorcise the above evil spirits. So, he didn't have the compass, and you cannot dig in this part of the cemetery, as that was another architect's idea.   [/hide]
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Grimbal on Mar 30th, 2007, 9:07am

on 03/30/07 at 07:18:32, Iceman wrote:
Maybe you think alike, but you think wrong.  :P

What if we are all right, and you are wrong?  After all, we have a majority...

Back to the problem.  Does Blondie have a dog?
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 30th, 2007, 9:34am

on 03/30/07 at 09:07:49, Grimbal wrote:
Back to the problem.  Does Blondie have a dog?

Good idea! Alas, he doesn't have a dog regarding scenario I had in mind. But if there is an alternative answer, this is definitely it! So you think that a dog could find it like that, and after a few weeks? If majority thinks so, I can do nothing else, but to accept your neat answer! :o
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Grimbal on Mar 30th, 2007, 9:51am
Maybe he draws a nice map of the place with numbers on each grave.  And he remembers which number it is.

He cannot just put the traditional cross on the map, it would look too suspicious when he gets searched for weapons.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 30th, 2007, 10:13am
I don't follow: how can he remember which number a grave has, if the numbers are not on graves?
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by denis on Mar 30th, 2007, 10:20am
Does he make use of the sun and the angle the tomb stone shadows make relative to the stone itself? Since the graves are all in a circle, the tombstones are also all in a circle and at any time in the day, a maximun of two stones on each circle will be aligned with its own shadow. All other stones will have their shadow go in an offset.  


He need only look at the shadows at the same time of day as he picked it out when he arrived (the two weeks will make a small but insignificant difference ). If in the 17'th century, clocks are not too acurate so doing this at sunrise or sunset will also do the trick.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 30th, 2007, 10:21am

on 03/30/07 at 10:20:15, denis wrote:
Does he make use of the sun and the angle the tomb stone shadows make relative to the stone itself? Since the graves are all in a circle, the tombstones are also all in a circle and at any time in the day, a maximun of two stones on each circle will be aligned with its own shadow. All other stones will have their shadow go in an offset.  


He need only look at the shadows at the same time of day as he picked it out when he arrived (the two weeks will make a small but insignificant difference ). If in the 17'th century, clocks are not too acurate so doing this at sunrise or sunset will also do the trick.

I don't follow again. I guess I drank a pill for stupidity today. :-[ It happens. Do others agree with either idea, perhaps? ??? Maybe you can explain it to me like I am a baby.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by denis on Mar 30th, 2007, 10:26am
Its a little bit like Stonehenge.... The stone formation in a circle alows the sun to form shadows at certain angles and give us our bearings. The shadows move around the stone (like a sundial) as the sun moves in the sky during the day. At some time in the day, each stone will have the shadow exactly line up perpenducular to the stone. Others stones will have a different angles with their shadow. But at any given given time of day, only two stones in each circle will have its shadow exactly line up. The next day we see the same movement and patterns reoccur.

The shadow pattern that occurs at the time when he chooses the grave only occurs once a day at about the same time as long as it is withing a few days. After more than a few days,  there is another seasonal variation as the sun climbs higher and higher in the sky after each day when the summer approaches (or climbs lower and lower as winter approaches). But this seasonal variation is small enough that he should find his tomb in the two week period.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 30th, 2007, 10:46am
Are you an Aztec, Denis? I have to be honest, that is, I really did drink a pill, not for stupidity though. But it kind of relaxed me, so I cannot strain my brain. I did make an important decision though, and accepted Grimbal's police dog answer. But the riddle is still a foot, regarding the intended answer, where there are no dogs and no compasses.   ;)  8)
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by denis on Mar 30th, 2007, 1:02pm
He finds the grave closest to the lowest elevation point in the cemetery. Since we are in 17'th century, the gravesite is not perfectly level. To find the lowest point, pour a large container of water and see where the water flows. (don't tell me the center is the lowest point!!). Since the water evaporates, he didn't make any changes to the site.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 30th, 2007, 1:10pm
The center is the lowest point. And aliens, who built the pyramids, also built this cemetery.  8)
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Aryabhatta on Mar 30th, 2007, 1:23pm
He goes to the center, and looks toward the dot of the i in the sign for Big Whiskey (if there are multiple sign, he could mark one of them, as Angel Eyes would not look there). This helps him pinpoint some graves . He goes to the one closest to Big Whiskey (or however he chooses) and walks around the circle, skipping his favourite number of graves...
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 30th, 2007, 1:44pm
There are no signs in the cemetery. I applaud your effort to try to crack this one, but what are you talking about?
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Aryabhatta on Mar 30th, 2007, 2:14pm
Sonofagun!  Last time I was near the cemetery (don't ask why) there were signs.. Must have been those freaking aliens...
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by denis on Mar 30th, 2007, 2:15pm
OK...here is a reference point that never fails and requires no compas: Choose the tombstone closest to the sun at sunrise (or sunset take your pick), or even the north star.  He can count a certain number of stones from that reference tombstone and put the money there.

[edit]Or he can pick the tombstone closest to the Big Wiskey since Angel Eyes know which direction the Big Wiskey is.[edit]
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 31st, 2007, 7:01am

on 03/30/07 at 14:15:46, denis wrote:
OK...here is a reference point that never fails and requires no compas: Choose the tombstone closest to the sun at sunrise (or sunset take your pick), or even the north star.  He can count a certain number of stones from that reference tombstone and put the money there.

Aren't sunset and sunrise always in a different place? Although, there is order in that, but shouldn't he wait for a year?




on 03/30/07 at 14:15:46, denis wrote:
[edit]Or he can pick the tombstone closest to the Big Wiskey since Angel Eyes know which direction the Big Wiskey is.[edit]

How exactly does he pinpoint the grave?



Blondie is not that good at orientation, and Angel Eyes knows this. So the question is, how could he have been so sure about the grave in question? We need a precision that takes the cake here, not an approximation.


Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Grimbal on Mar 31st, 2007, 7:59am
My map solution was assuming the tombs are somehow randomly arranged between the 2 circles.  You can turn the map until the pattern matches.

Now assuming the cemetery is made of 2 circles of tombs, all equally spaced, an no sign anywhere at the horizon, there still is a chance if the number of tombs in the 2 circles are prime to each other.  In that situation there can not be 2 pairs of tombs that align equally well with the center.  If you take 2 different pairs of tombs (a1,b1) and (a2,b2) where a1, a2 in the inner circle and b1, b2 in the outer circle, the angle a1-O-b1 and a2-0-b2 can not be equal.  This implies that there is a single pair of tombs that align best with the center.  It could be 2 pairs with + and - the same angle, but they can be differentiated.
So, go to the center, find the 2 tombs that are best aligned and dig one.

Another solution is to come back at midnight and tell his team in a loud and clear voice "Let's dig out the gold!".  A hollow voice should come out of one of the tombs telling "What?  Are you messing up my grave again?"
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 31st, 2007, 8:08am
I am sure you had a fine moment of clarity, and that Denis saw the brightest stars, but I am just a workingman. I get goose pimples when math and physics is subject. I prefer poetry, so maybe Raven knows the answer.  
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Grimbal on Mar 31st, 2007, 8:15am
Come on, spit it out, or I'll throw more maths at you!   ;)
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Mar 31st, 2007, 9:29am
I'd love to, but I fell and hit my head on a chainsaw in motion, and now I have amnesia. But my doctor said that, if someone provides a correct answer, he said that it would all come back to me..  Good luck  8)
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by denis on Mar 31st, 2007, 9:37am
He used a string to measure the distance between each tombstone on the outer circle and the closest tombstone to it on the inner circle. The tombstone on the outer circle with the least distance to its closest inner-circle neighbor wins. This tombstone becomes his reference tombstone from which he can count a certain number of graves and bury the money.

This being the 17'th century, the precision is such that the distances will not be exactly the same between all tombstones.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by denis on Mar 31st, 2007, 9:48am
He buried along with the money a seed of a plant that takes two weeks to just poke out of the soil. Note that it does not break the rule of the architect since everything is left untouched while the seed is underground. Also, plants and weekds are part of nature so that they sprout naturally from time to time in the cemetery and is removed periodically by the caretaker.

When the plant pokes out in the two weeks, the caretaker has not yet done his rounds and Blondie will immediately know which grave to dig out .
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Lightboxes on Mar 31st, 2007, 2:26pm
[hide]He buried it in the grave with nothing on it.  Thereby explaining the unknown name.  
However, the other graves had unknown names (something written on it).[/hide]
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Icarus on Apr 1st, 2007, 12:45pm
He stuck a stick in the ground, and marked the end of it's shadow. then he waited for a while, and marked the end of the shadow again. The line though the two marks is E-W. He sights along it to spot the easternmost grave in one of the circles, then moves 27 graves to the left because he doesn't want to make it too easy for Angel-eyes. There he buries the money.

After Angle-eyes gives up, he comes out, does the same thing again to retrieve the money, and then spends the rest of his days wondering what the heck a circular grave yard and Angel-eyes are doing in "A Few Dollars More" instead of in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" where they belong.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Apr 1st, 2007, 5:37pm

on 03/31/07 at 09:48:56, denis wrote:
He buried along with the money a seed of a plant that takes two weeks to just poke out of the soil. Note that it does not break the rule of the architect since everything is left untouched while the seed is underground. Also, plants and weekds are part of nature so that they sprout naturally from time to time in the cemetery and is removed periodically by the caretaker.

When the plant pokes out in the two weeks, the caretaker has not yet done his rounds and Blondie will immediately know which grave to dig out .

Congrats! Yes, his lady likes flowers.  





on 04/01/07 at 12:45:33, Icarus wrote:
After Angle-eyes gives up, he comes out, does the same thing again to retrieve the money, and then spends the rest of his days wondering what the heck a circular grave yard and Angel-eyes are doing in "A Few Dollars More" instead of in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" where they belong.

I know that, but there is no the Ugly here, just the Good and the Bad.


Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Icarus on Apr 1st, 2007, 7:01pm
Have you seen his lady?  ::)
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Apr 1st, 2007, 7:48pm
I invented his lady. She likes flowers though. Wait a minute.. you are not talking about his actual woman in real life!?? Jesus..   :-X
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Icarus on Apr 2nd, 2007, 3:56pm
No - I'm not even sure who Clint is kissing these days (largely because I don't care).
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by Iceman on Apr 2nd, 2007, 4:28pm
I'm sure though he cares about who you are kissing, my man. But I am also sure he doesn't care about who I am kissing, because I am not kissing anybody. In fact, I never kissed a woman in my life, excepting my mother. Been with a woman though, but I haven't kissed her. And why would I? If you think a woman in my riddle is ugly, think again.
Title: Re: For a few dollars more
Post by thecow135 on Apr 3rd, 2007, 8:35pm
WHAT??!?! im so lost lol
iceman go kiss some1 =) it mite make you less cranky =P


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