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        riddles >> what happened >> Duel
        
(Message started by: Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 2:37pm)
Title: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 2:37pm
In this duel, there are two fat twins, Tom and David, identical in all respects, regarding their physique and health. They are alone, in a middle of a fight, currently fighting with fists on a flat surface, standing right between a loaded gun and an iron crowbar on the floor. The gun is seven meters away, the crowbar just a meter away, and there are no other weapons. So at one moment, David starts to run towards the crowbar, and this looked like a good opportunity to Tom, so he starts running towards the gun. But David wins, even though he didn't throw anything and both were running at the same speed. So how he won?  
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Aryabhatta on Mar 26th, 2007, 2:44pm
[hide] Tom's fingers were too thick to press the trigger [/hide]?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 26th, 2007, 2:46pm
Was the crowbar eight meters long perchance?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by towr on Mar 26th, 2007, 2:51pm
[hide]empty gun[/hide]?

[hide]David managed to pry open the lock of the arena and escape?[/hide]?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 3:00pm

on 03/26/07 at 14:44:22, Aryabhatta wrote:
[hide] Tom's fingers were too thick to press the trigger [/hide]?

I like this answer. In fact, I decided to accept it. :o But let us suppose, regarding the intended answer, that he could pull the trigger with his pinky. So regarding such scenario, any ideas?    ;)





on 03/26/07 at 14:46:39, denis wrote:
Was the crowbar eight meters long perchance?

No.





on 03/26/07 at 14:51:50, towr wrote:
[hide]empty gun[/hide]?

No. The gun was loaded. It even had the silencer. ::)





on 03/26/07 at 14:51:50, towr wrote:
[hide]David managed to pry open the lock of the arena and escape?[/hide]?

He didn't try to escape. Brave fellow. :P
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Three Hands on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:12pm
[hide]Poor Tom, that run over 7 metres, in addition to the workout he'd had in the fist fight beforehand, proved too much for his heart to handle. David barely survived his 1 metre sprint, and is suspected to have died shortly after when attempting to leave the arena.

The fact they both knew and had employed Pei Mei's legendary Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique on each other didn't help much either...[/hide]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:16pm
The crowbar was laying down on its back side with the hook facing up like this:

C____


Now David can pick it up by just bending down slightly without having to drop down to his knees.

However, the gun being closer to the ground and with Tom's big stomach required him to drop down to his knees to find and pick up the gun. Because of this he looses precious seconds while David has time to make up the two meter gap that was created between them when they ran in opposite directions.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:31pm

on 03/26/07 at 16:16:03, denis wrote:
The crowbar was laying down on its back side with the hook facing up like this:

C____


Now David can pick it up by just bending down slightly without having to drop down to his knees.

However, the gun being closer to the ground and with Tom's big stomach required him to drop down to his knees to find and pick up the gun. Because of this he looses precious seconds while David has time to make up the two meter gap that was created between them when they ran in opposite directions.

Not bad, but not good enough. They are fat, but since it is a life threatening situation, I think that Tom's stomach woludn't be his major problem. If he had to, he would drop down to his knees like Superman. And if you watched sumo wrestling, you probably noticed how easily the fattest wrestlers bend their knees. Not a bad try, but not the answer I am looking for. And it was a regular crowbar, w/o the hook, if that is a regular crowbar to begin with. Dunno much about crowbars.





on 03/26/07 at 16:12:53, Three Hands wrote:
[hide]Poor Tom, that run over 7 metres, in addition to the workout he'd had in the fist fight beforehand, proved too much for his heart to handle. David barely survived his 1 metre sprint, and is suspected to have died shortly after when attempting to leave the arena.

The fact they both knew and had employed Pei Mei's legendary Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique on each other didn't help much either...[/hide]

Heart failure was not the main reason he lost.   ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:42pm
Tom's first shot hits David in the shoulder. Not a fatal shot. Tom's fat finger is now stuck in the trigger such that the trigger cannot release to allow another shot giving David the time to hit Tom with the Crowbar (a slight variation to Aryabhatta's original solution).
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:47pm
No. The finger didn't get stuck this time.  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by spanchap on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:55pm
Let us say the two brothers move at x meters per second and the length of the crowbar is L.

David moves towards the crow bar, picks it up and moves back towards the gun and uses the crow bar to pull the gun towards himself. Let us say all this happens in time t.

Then tx + L = 9 (David's distance covered + crowbar length should be 9 meters) and Tom's distance covered is tx.

As long as tx < 7 and tx + L =9, David can pull the gun towards him and win. There are many different values of tx and L that satisfy the above condition which allows David to win.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:00pm
But Tom and David are running at the same speed. So by the time David gets to the crowbar, there are two meters between them because they are running in opposite directions (t is irrelevant here). In this case, L would have to be at least 2 meters for David to reach the gun with the crowbar before Tom. I don't know of any two meter crowbars.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:01pm
Because no man would be so angry enough with his brother to shoot him.  He might hit him with crowbar, though.

Alternatively, Tom sees that David chose the less-lethal form of violence and realizes that his brother is acting more sensibly than he.

These are not the intended, though.  I'll think on this one.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:07pm
The pistol is a pellet gun?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by spanchap on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:08pm

on 03/26/07 at 17:00:57, denis wrote:
But Tom and David are running at the same speed. So by the time David gets to the crowbar, there are two meters between them because they are running in opposite directions (t is irrelevant here). In this case, L would have to be at least 2 meters for David to reach the gun with the crowbar before Tom. I don't know of any two meter crowbars.


Actually I have used a 2m crowbar. So I know they exist  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:10pm

on 03/26/07 at 17:01:07, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Because no man would be so angry enough with his brother to shoot him.  He might hit him with crowbar, though.

How you figure? You have a fat brother too?  ;D



on 03/26/07 at 17:01:07, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Alternatively, Tom sees that David chose the less-lethal form of violence and realizes that his brother is acting more sensibly than he.

No deep emotions were involved here. Except for hate. Brothers usually love each other. Not in this riddle though.



on 03/26/07 at 16:55:24, spanchap wrote:
Let us say the two brothers move at x meters per second and the length of the crowbar is L.

David moves towards the crow bar, picks it up and moves back towards the gun and uses the crow bar to pull the gun towards himself. Let us say all this happens in time t.

Then tx + L = 9 (David's distance covered + crowbar length should be 9 meters) and Tom's distance covered is tx.

As long as tx < 7 and tx + L =9, David can pull the gun towards him and win. There are many different values of tx and L that satisfy the above condition which allows David to win.

No fancy math is an issue here.  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:11pm

on 03/26/07 at 17:08:58, spanchap wrote:
Actually I have used a 2m crowbar .So I know they exist  ;)


OK I stand corrected... Never seen one before but I just found one on google.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by spanchap on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:14pm
Are there different types of guns for right handed and left handed people? (I have no clue about guns).

If yes, then the gun was left handed and Tom was right handed and could not pull the trigger easily.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Padfoot on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:14pm
When Tom gets to the gun, he realizes that the cleaver David has glued the gun to the ground... Ouch!
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:17pm

on 03/26/07 at 17:14:30, spanchap wrote:
Are there different types of guns for right handed and left handed people? (I have no clue about guns).

If yes, then the gun was left handed and Tom was right handed and could not pull the trigger easily.

A bit silly.




on 03/26/07 at 17:07:15, denis wrote:
The pistol is a pellet gun?

No. It is a real gun.




on 03/26/07 at 17:08:58, spanchap wrote:
Actually I have used a 2m crowbar. So I know they exist  ;)

It was not that long.



on 03/26/07 at 17:14:31, Padfoot wrote:
When Tom gets to the gun, he realizes that the cleaver David has glued the gun to the ground... Ouch!

No such luck.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Padfoot on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:26pm
Could this have happoned if the twins were not fat?  I'm assuming not, just want to make sure.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by spanchap on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:31pm
Since Iceman already characterized my suggestion of a left handed gun as being silly :'(, I have decided to justify his accusation by providing a really silly and actually quite simple solution.

David was the "One" (similar to Neo in Matrix) and Tom was really a robot from beyond the matrix (who was swapped with David's real twin at the hospital when they were born). All David ("The One") had to do was to gently swat the bullets and they all fell at his feet. Taking care of Tom was then a child's play.

Note: Nobody else has figured this solution as everybody else is still "in the Matrix".
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:36pm
Tom is exausted after a 7 meter dash and is panting heavily. He cannot aim a pistol when he is breathing so hard and his heart pounding and needs to catch his breath (ask a Biathalon athlete how difficult it is to aim their target rifle after they stop to ski, even when they are in good shape).

Now David with the crowbar needs no precision whatsoever. Just swing in the general direction of Tom when he gets close enough even when he himself is breathing hard and heart pounding.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Lightboxes on Mar 26th, 2007, 5:45pm

[hideb][hide]Siamese twins [/hide][/hideb]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 6:46pm

on 03/26/07 at 17:26:04, Padfoot wrote:
Could this have happoned if the twins were not fat?

Well...............................................  ;)




on 03/26/07 at 17:31:52, spanchap wrote:
Since Iceman already characterized my suggestion of a left handed gun as being silly :'(, I have decided to justify his accusation by providing a really silly and actually quite simple solution.

David was the "One" (similar to Neo in Matrix) and Tom was really a robot from beyond the matrix (who was swapped with David's real twin at the hospital when they were born). All David ("The One") had to do was to gently swat the bullets and they all fell at his feet. Taking care of Tom was then a child's play.

Note: Nobody else has figured this solution as everybody else is still "in the Matrix".

I still don't know what a matrix is. :P





on 03/26/07 at 17:36:22, denis wrote:
Tom is exausted after a 7 meter dash and is panting heavily. He cannot aim a pistol when he is breathing so hard and his heart pounding and needs to catch his breath (ask a Biathalon athlete how difficult it is to aim their target rifle after they stop to ski, even when they are in good shape).

Now David with the crowbar needs no precision whatsoever. Just swing in the general direction of Tom when he gets close enough even when he himself is breathing hard and heart pounding.


Err......... what??



on 03/26/07 at 17:45:25, Lightboxes wrote:
[hideb][hide]Siamese twins [/hide][/hideb]

Nah.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Mar 26th, 2007, 9:09pm
Tom did managed to reach the gun, turning around, aiming at David, and firing a shot. Although its near point blank range, David's body tissue ( not to mention the layers upon layers of body fat ) absorped the momentum of the bullet, minimizing the damage to his vital organs. Reaching Tom, he swung the crowbar at Tom, cracking open Tom's skull, which, unfortunately, is not protected by layers and layers of body fat.

I got it, rite Icey ?  ;D
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 26th, 2007, 10:59pm
Nope. Nobody is that fat.     ::)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by BNC on Mar 27th, 2007, 12:08am
1.[hide]Once David reached the crowbar, he immediatly turned and ran toward Tom. Since the gun had the safety latch on, it took Tom a whle to figure(he was not very experienced with guns) and even then a while longer to release the latch. By that time David reached him and had hit him to win.[/hide]

2.[hide]The winner of the contest was the first one to touch metal. All the fist fighting was just a way to get to the two available metal objects. Off course David won -- he was closer.[/hide]

[edit]3.[hide]The bar was in the arena, while the gun was out of it (or in another room). Tom's fats prevented him from reaching it.[/hide][/edit]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 27th, 2007, 1:11am
"standing right between a loaded gun and an iron crowbar on the floor"
The crowbar was on the floor, the gun wasn't.  The gun was tied to the ceiling with a golden rope or so.

Or maybe the gun has a 3m long barrel.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 27th, 2007, 1:15am
Or Tom and David are elephants.  Never seen one fire a gun.

Maybe when the villagers see Tom grab a gun, they shoot him.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by BNC on Mar 27th, 2007, 1:23am

on 03/27/07 at 01:15:05, Grimbal wrote:
Or Tom and David are elephants.  Never seen one fire a gun.


Seen many "fighting with fists"?  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Mar 27th, 2007, 2:07am

on 03/27/07 at 01:23:34, BNC wrote:
Seen many "fighting with fists"?  ;)


Apes then ...   :P
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 27th, 2007, 4:51am

on 03/27/07 at 01:23:34, BNC wrote:
Seen many "fighting with fists"?  ;)

If they roll the trunk into a ball, how do you call it?

Maybe they tore a villager into pieces and took one arm each and playfully try to punch each other with it?

Maybe they do have some ape blood, due to some embarrassing story in their ancestry of which they never wanted to speak about.  It was a shame for the whole family.

:-/
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 7:12am
The puzzle mentions there was no other weapon. Was there anything else there close to the crowbar that wasn't a weapon but could help David get back faster to Tom before he could get to the gun?

A golf cart, bicycle or Segway perhaps?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Archae on Mar 27th, 2007, 8:33am
In my experience, excessivley fat people tend not to lift their legs as much when they run.  But, these two do seem to be fighting for their lives, so I'm sure there is some sense of urgency with the brothers.
Although David didn't throw it, he slid the crowbar along the flat ground (maybe pushed it with his foot or bent over and slid it with his hands) and tripped up Tom, causing the fat man to fall like a sack of lumpy potatoes.  Once Tom goes down, David has the advantage, as the fall alone may have knocked Tom unconcious, or at least slowed him down for a good while.

I'll keep thinking
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 27th, 2007, 9:56am
Maybe the gun is in a metal box.  With a lock.  And the lock is locked.  The kind of thing you cannot open without the key.  Or maybe with a crowbar.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Aryabhatta on Mar 27th, 2007, 10:44am
Maybe the gun is a blowdart (ala KS's theatre puzzle) gun. Tom is out of breath and cannot launch the poisonous dart at David who is very close by then...
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 11:13am

on 03/27/07 at 00:08:42, BNC wrote:
1.[hide]Once David reached the crowbar, he immediatly turned and ran toward Tom. Since the gun had the safety latch on, it took Tom a whle to figure(he was not very experienced with guns) and even then a while longer to release the latch. By that time David reached him and had hit him to win.[/hide]

No. Tom knew all about it.  




on 03/27/07 at 00:08:42, BNC wrote:
2.[hide]The winner of the contest was the first one to touch metal. All the fist fighting was just a way to get to the two available metal objects. Off course David won -- he was closer.[/hide]

No. The fight was far more sinister.



on 03/27/07 at 00:08:42, BNC wrote:
[edit]3.[hide]The bar was in the arena, while the gun was out of it (or in another room). Tom's fats prevented him from reaching it.[/hide][/edit]

No rooms.




on 03/27/07 at 01:11:00, Grimbal wrote:
"standing right between a loaded gun and an iron crowbar on the floor"
The crowbar was on the floor, the gun wasn't.  The gun was tied to the ceiling with a golden rope or so.

Or maybe the gun has a 3m long barrel.

No. It was on the floor. And no Guinness barrel.



on 03/27/07 at 01:15:05, Grimbal wrote:
Or Tom and David are elephants.  Never seen one fire a gun.

Maybe when the villagers see Tom grab a gun, they shoot him.

They are men and there were no other folks.  



on 03/27/07 at 07:12:54, denis wrote:
The puzzle mentions there was no other weapon. Was there anything else there close to the crowbar that wasn't a weapon but could help David get back faster to Tom before he could get to the gun?

A golf cart, bicycle or Segway perhaps?

Good question. But he didn't use other hard objects though.  ;) And what is Segway?



on 03/27/07 at 08:33:30, Archae wrote:
In my experience, excessivley fat people tend not to lift their legs as much when they run.  But, these two do seem to be fighting for their lives, so I'm sure there is some sense of urgency with the brothers.
Although David didn't throw it, he slid the crowbar along the flat ground (maybe pushed it with his foot or bent over and slid it with his hands) and tripped up Tom, causing the fat man to fall like a sack of lumpy potatoes.  Once Tom goes down, David has the advantage, as the fall alone may have knocked Tom unconcious, or at least slowed him down for a good while.

Nobody tripped.



on 03/27/07 at 09:56:51, Grimbal wrote:
Maybe the gun is in a metal box.  With a lock.  And the lock is locked.  The kind of thing you cannot open without the key.  Or maybe with a crowbar.

No. The gun was easily accessible.  



on 03/27/07 at 10:44:08, Aryabhatta wrote:
Maybe the gun is a blowdart (ala KS's theatre puzzle) gun. Tom is out of breath and cannot launch the poisonous dart at David who is very close by then...

No darts either.
:-[
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 11:20am

on 03/27/07 at 11:13:12, Iceman wrote:
what is Segway?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 11:41am
No Segway either.  8)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 11:42am
OK here's a Yes/no question. It was asked before by Padfoot but you were somewhat coy and never answered directly. Could this scenario that you describe happen to regular size people? In other words, is the fact they are fat significant to solving this riddle?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 11:49am
To [hide]tell you the truth, I'm not entirely sure. But yes, I did mention their fatness for a reason[/hide].  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 12:04pm
Could the flat hard surface be ice on a frozen lake or pond?

The ice where the gun is located is towards the middle of the frozen pond therefore thinner. When the Tom arrived near the gun he falls through the ice.

David on the other hand was going towards land where the ice is thicker. We has able to safely pick the crowbar and "win" without any fires being shot.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 12:09pm
Good idea. Unfortunately, ice has no role here.  :'(  8)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 12:16pm
Perhaps they were fighting inside a swimming pool. The crowbar was at the shallow end under one or two feet of water but the gun was in the deep end under at least 10 feet of water (the gun was water proof).

Unfortunatly, Tom could not hold his breath for that long to enable him to reach the gun. Either that or because he was fat he had too much boyancy to reach the bottom.

Other possibility, both the gun and crowbar were under one or two feet of water but the gun was not water proof.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 12:34pm
No swimming pool either.  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 12:39pm
-Is there something that impedes either Tom or David's  progress towards their weapon? Something that would not otherwise affect a thin person?

-is the floor a regular surface or is there something peculiar or unconventional about it that gives David an advantage with his crowbar?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 1:28pm

on 03/27/07 at 12:39:02, denis wrote:
-Is there something that impedes either Tom or David's  progress towards their weapon? Something that would not otherwise affect a thin person?

Impediment? Not really.




on 03/27/07 at 12:39:02, denis wrote:
-is the floor a regular surface or is there something peculiar or unconventional about it that gives David an advantage with his crowbar?

Maybe.  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 2:37pm
They are fighting on a thick *glass* floor. The floor is composed of two panes which meet at the place  where they start running.

David has to run 2 meters, take the crowbar and run 2 meters back to where the two glass floor panes meet. By that time Tom has only run 4 meters plus a bit more (because David had to stop and pick up the crowbar). David then shatters the the glass floor on the other side of the seam with a blow from the crowbar (the side Tom is on). Tom's weight does the rest and he and the broken glass goes tumbling down to his death.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 2:55pm
No glass.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Aryabhatta on Mar 27th, 2007, 3:37pm
The floor is a see-saw?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Padfoot on Mar 27th, 2007, 3:49pm

on 03/27/07 at 15:37:20, Aryabhatta wrote:
The floor is a see-saw?


(Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't checked over this) Even if they were on a see-saw, I don't think duel's outcome would be possible.

Gun_____t__^__(d,Bar)______

Now they are 4 meters away from eachother and the see-saw is balanced.

Then the see-saw will tilt, but the brothers will still be running at the same rate.

A see-saw would only effect the outcome of the duel if the time that it took to pick up the gun was counted.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 3:54pm

on 03/27/07 at 15:37:20, Aryabhatta wrote:
The floor is a see-saw?

No. Interesting and funny approach though. :P
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Lightboxes on Mar 27th, 2007, 5:47pm
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Mar 27th, 2007, 6:35pm
Lightboxes, that is funny, not to mention a little disturbing.

What if they were fighting in a building with elevated wooden floors ? There are spectators watching them, and for some reason they prefer David to win. When Tom starts to move towards the gun, all the spectators starts to poke the floor around the gun area, causing Tom to hurt himself, giving time for David to whack Tom to oblivion..  :P

Ok, lets ask some other questions
1. Was the gun fired ?
2. Did David actually hit Tom with the crowbar ?
3. Are they fighting on a bed ?

Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 7:22pm
Lightboxes, that has to be the funniest thing I ever saw!  :P




on 03/27/07 at 18:35:58, JiNbOtAk wrote:
What if they were fighting in a building with elevated wooden floors ? There are spectators watching them, and for some reason they prefer David to win. When Tom starts to move towards the gun, all the spectators starts to poke the floor around the gun area, causing Tom to hurt himself, giving time for David to whack Tom to oblivion..  :P


2. Did David actually hit Tom with the crowbar ?
3. Are they fighting on a bed ?

[hide]Nope[/hide].





on 03/27/07 at 18:35:58, JiNbOtAk wrote:
1. Was the gun fired ?

[hide]I don't think so[/hide]. ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 7:51pm
Great diagram Lightboxes.... You should be awarded an "alternate" just for creativity!

Ice, are they fighting outside or are they inside?

Was Tom struck by someting or other?

Did David pry lose a high library (over eight meters) with the crowbar so that it fell on top of Tom?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 8:04pm

on 03/27/07 at 19:51:39, denis wrote:
Ice, are they fighting outside or are they inside?

Makes no difference, but just to be more correct, I'd say they were fighting indoors.




on 03/27/07 at 19:51:39, denis wrote:
Was Tom struck by someting or other?

Well, the word 'strike' has different meanings. But I'd say he was [hide]definitely struck[/hide]. I might be wrong though.   :-[



on 03/27/07 at 19:51:39, denis wrote:
Did David pry lose a high library (over eight meters) with the crowbar so that it fell on top of Tom?

[hide]Nothing high was involved.  ;)[/hide]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 8:09pm
-Did David even get to the crowbar?
-If he did, did he use it for some purpose that made him "win"
-Did David manage somehow to get possesion of the gun before Tom?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 27th, 2007, 8:12pm

on 03/27/07 at 20:09:00, denis wrote:
-Did David even get to the crowbar?
-If he did, did he use it for some purpose that made him "win"

[hideb]Yep.[/hideb]




on 03/27/07 at 20:09:00, denis wrote:
-Did David manage somehow to get to the gun first?

[hide]No.
[/hide]  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 8:21pm
-Did he use the crowbar like a baseball bat to propell a hard object (stone, baseball) towards Tom (guess it doesn't make use of their fatness so I don't think this is the solution).

Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Mar 27th, 2007, 8:45pm
Tom was struck by lightning..   :o
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 27th, 2007, 9:05pm
-Did David use his belt? For example tie it to the crowbar for extra reach use it as a lasoo to strangle Tom?

======_____________________________
                   
Crowbar                 belt
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Mar 27th, 2007, 9:35pm
Hehe, I just couldn't get the image out of my head, an obese guy trying to lasso another obese guy with his really long belt.. nice one denis.

Icey, does that fact that they are identical twins significant ?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Lightboxes on Mar 27th, 2007, 10:36pm
David "won" by: [hide]reaching the crowbar first.  Whoever reaches a weapon wins.[/hide]
OR
[hide]They were not fighting eachother.  David won by beating his/the oppenent first.[/hide]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 28th, 2007, 6:47am

on 03/27/07 at 20:21:39, denis wrote:
-Did he use the crowbar like a baseball bat to propell a hard object (stone, baseball) towards Tom (guess it doesn't make use of their fatness so I don't think this is the solution).

No. I said that he didn't use other hard objects right then.




on 03/27/07 at 21:05:59, denis wrote:
-Did David use his belt? For example tie it to the crowbar for extra reach use it as a lasoo to strangle Tom?

======_____________________________
                   
Crowbar                 belt

No.



on 03/27/07 at 21:35:39, JiNbOtAk wrote:
Icey, does that fact that they are identical twins significant ?

No.



on 03/27/07 at 22:36:37, Lightboxes wrote:
David "won" by: [hide]reaching the crowbar first.  Whoever reaches a weapon wins.[/hide]

No. The one who hurts badly or kills the other wins.

Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 28th, 2007, 7:03am
Is the speed of the twins close to the speed of light?  Is relativity involved?

Is Tom running on a carpet?  Is David pulling the carpet as Tom runs?

Is strong wind involved?  Did David win by planting the crowbar in the ground while Tom was blown away?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 28th, 2007, 7:09am
Ice,

Previously when I asked "is the floor a regular surface or is there something peculiar or unconventional about it that gives David an advantage with his crowbar?" you answered "maybe".

Could you give a yes/no answer?

Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 28th, 2007, 8:28am

on 03/28/07 at 07:03:19, Grimbal wrote:
Is the speed of the twins close to the speed of light?  Is relativity involved?

No.




on 03/28/07 at 07:03:19, Grimbal wrote:
Is Tom running on a carpet?  Is David pulling the carpet as Tom runs?

Another good idea, but Tom is too heavy.  ;)




on 03/28/07 at 07:03:19, Grimbal wrote:
Is strong wind involved?  Did David win by planting the crowbar in the ground while Tom was blown away?

No wind.




on 03/28/07 at 07:09:44, denis wrote:
Ice,

Previously when I asked "is the floor a regular surface or is there something peculiar or unconventional about it that gives David an advantage with his crowbar?" you answered "maybe".

Could you give a yes/no answer?

I thought I did. :P I would like to answer, but I think that I would reveal too much if I do so, plus I am not quite sure how to answer it. Does this say something to you?  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 28th, 2007, 8:51am
There is quicksand (or wet cement or a substance that gives for heavy loads) at a two meter radius from the point of fighting. David uses the crowbar to pull himself out. Tom unfortunately cannot get to the gun or get out of the quicksand and gets burried over his head.

Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 28th, 2007, 10:17am
I said no impediments, and I think that includes the above too. But keep thinking along those lines, as your try wasn't a total waste, ;) I think.  ???



About what I clumsily :-[ said regarding objects.. All I meant was that he didn't use other hard objects when he grabbed the crowbar, that's all.  
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Mar 28th, 2007, 6:39pm
Okay, there's something peculiar about the floor, but what is it ?

1. It's not a see - saw.
2. It's not glass.
3. It's not quicksand / wet cement /  substance that gives heavy loads.
4. It's not carpet.

So.. are they fighting in a cage ?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 28th, 2007, 6:57pm
Cage? No.


Not sure what substance that gives heavy loads is. :-[
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 28th, 2007, 7:06pm

on 03/28/07 at 18:57:36, Iceman wrote:
Not sure what substance that gives heavy loads is. :-[


What Jimbotak means is that the substance yields or breaks under a heavy load under certain circumstances.

I think what we are looking for is a characteristic of the floor that gives David and the crowbar an opportunity to eliminate Tom but only because they are fat. If they were not fat, the scenario would not necessarily work. That is the conclusion I seem to get from all of the information gathered so far.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by BNC on Mar 29th, 2007, 3:33am
Was the gun in plain sight?

[hide]I thinking of a floor covered with trash. The crowbar is easy to find, as it's long. The gun takes much more time to locate between the various debris of the floor, allowing David the extra time to win.[/hide]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Mar 29th, 2007, 6:29am
Forgot to mention, in an earlier post, we found that David does not actually hit Tom with the crowbar. He uses it it in some other way to win. So finding the crowbar is not enough. It's what he does with it other than use it directly on Tom that what we need to determine.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 29th, 2007, 6:52am
Tom and David are on life support.  With the crowbar he pulls Tom's plug.

Or Tom and David are fighting against a vampire.  The vampire is confused by the twins running in opposite directions.  David grabs the exquisitely carved silver crowbar and plants it in the vampire's heart.  David won, yes, but so did Tom.  They are a team.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 29th, 2007, 8:05am
I must correct a few of my previous posts regarding darn objects, as I got a little confused :-[ about the concept. Sorry. So let me say now, with assurance, that when he grabbed the crowbar, he didn't use any other hard objects.





on 03/28/07 at 19:06:42, denis wrote:
What Jimbotak means is that the substance yields or breaks under a heavy load under certain circumstances.

I am sensing that you are talking about something heavy here. If so, let me say right now, that only twins were really heavy.




on 03/28/07 at 19:06:42, denis wrote:
I think what we are looking for is a characteristic of the floor that gives David and the crowbar an opportunity to eliminate Tom but only because they are fat. If they were not fat, the scenario would not necessarily work. That is the conclusion I seem to get from all of the information gathered so far.

Something like that.




on 03/29/07 at 03:33:54, BNC wrote:
Was the gun in plain sight?

It sure was.




on 03/29/07 at 03:33:54, BNC wrote:
[hide]I thinking of a floor covered with trash. The crowbar is easy to find, as it's long. The gun takes much more time to locate between the various debris of the floor, allowing David the extra time to win.[/hide]

No trash. No debris.  



Btw, regarding the objects mistake, you threw so many questions at me, that I simply got confused. No more questions, for Christ sake!  
 :P
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 29th, 2007, 8:17am

on 03/27/07 at 14:37:56, denis wrote:
They are fighting on a thick *glass* floor. The floor is composed of two panes which meet at the place  where they start running.

Like this?
http://prezwho.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/glass-bridge4.jpg

But...

on 03/27/07 at 14:55:39, Iceman wrote:
No glass.

:(
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 29th, 2007, 8:25am
They are on a bridge.  It is in a very bad state and has been ... you could almost say "repaired" many times,ŕ la Mc Guyver, with such materials as duct tape, shoelace, chewing gum and... a crowbar.  David reached the end of the bridge and pulled out the crowbar and the whole construction collapses (in part because of some domino that were part of the ... thing).  Tom dies.


Or maybe David reaches the crowbar, throws it at Tom's camel, the camel runs over the finish line and David wins.  Tom tried the same but only managed to kill David's camel.


Well, I am trying.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 29th, 2007, 8:43am
No bridges.





on 03/29/07 at 08:25:01, Grimbal wrote:
Well, I am trying.

Not good enough. Give me hundred pushups! :P
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Mar 29th, 2007, 9:52am
http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Creatures_and_Cartoons/Smiles/Brown_pushups.gif
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Lightboxes on Mar 29th, 2007, 11:07am
Both are standing on a tiny planet...a planet so tiny that if they were not so fat...they would float off into space.  

The planet is approximately 12 meters in circumference.  They are standing "in between" the gun and crowbar.  Tom is at 11:59 and David is at 12:01.  The crowbar is at 1:00 and the gun is at 5:00.  The gun, in reference to Tom is 7 meters away (counter-clockwise) but to David is only 5 meters away (clockwise).  The crowbar in reference to David is 1 meter away (clockwise) and 11 meters away to Tom (counter-clockwise).  

Tom         David

      0                     0
 |-   - |
 /\                         /\
...-------   --- crowbar        
./ xxxxxx \        
| xxxxxxx |        
.\ xxxxxx /        
...-------              
                                             \
                                              Gun        

I'm at work so I don't have Adobe Photoshop...sorry guys.

:P
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Mar 29th, 2007, 11:33am

on 03/29/07 at 11:07:45, Lightboxes wrote:
Both are standing on a tiny planet...a planet so tiny that if they were not so fat...they would float off into space.  

The planet is approximately 12 meters in circumference.  They are standing "in between" the gun and crowbar.  Tom is at 11:59 and David is at 12:01.  The crowbar is at 1:00 and the gun is at 5:00.  The gun, in reference to Tom is 7 meters away (counter-clockwise) but to David is only 5 meters away (clockwise).  The crowbar in reference to David is 1 meter away (clockwise) and 11 meters away to Tom (counter-clockwise).  

Tom         David

      0                     0
 |-   - |
 /\                         /\
...-------   --- crowbar        
./ xxxxxx \        
| xxxxxxx |        
.\ xxxxxx /        
...-------              
                                             \
                                              Gun        

:P

Actually, they were in China.     ;D





on 03/29/07 at 11:07:45, Lightboxes wrote:


I'm at work so I don't have Adobe Photoshop...sorry guys.

:P

......and I wanted to see another masterpiece. :'(
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 4th, 2007, 12:13pm
This riddle has stalled so let's try to resurrect it.

Here are a few facts uncovered from previous questions (Iceman, correct any inconsistent facts):

-The scenario makes use of the obesity of David and Tom. The scenario is unlikely to occur with two normal weight people or thin people.

-The one who wins is the one who kills or badly injures the other

-David does actually get to the crowbar but does not strike Tom with it. He does something else with it that leads to Tom's defeat.

-The floor or surface on which they are fighting *may* be part of the key to the solution. But it does not involve ice, glass, water or debris.

I have a few questions for Ice. If you could answer yes/no, perhaps we can get closer to the solution. I know you said "no more questions for Christ sake" in a previous post but it looks like there is not going to be much movement unless we can get a bit more info:

1) There are no other hard objects other than the gun and crowbar. Are there any other non-hard objects that are key to the solution?

2) Is the floor type/configuration part of the key to solving this or is it only peripherally involved in the solution? You mentionned that this scenario can occur outside or inside so I cannot reconcile this with the floor or ground being key to the solution.

3) Since we know that David does not strike Tom with the crowbar, Is the crowbar used on the floor in some particular manner?  Otherwise, is it used in conjunction with the other non-hard object(s) that may be possibly used?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Apr 4th, 2007, 8:17pm
Does he use the crowbar to pry out a piece of the floor, sending his brother through a gap in the planks?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Apr 5th, 2007, 12:46am

on 04/04/07 at 20:17:34, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Does he use the crowbar to pry out a piece of the floor, sending his brother through a gap in the planks?


Whew WTF, he must be really fast to pry a piece of before he got shot..  :o

What if he used the crowbar to trip his brother down ? His brother then would lose, since he cannot get up, due to his obese form. They were fighting on a smooth surface, which facilitate his brother tripping, and ensuring his brother would rock to sleep trying to get up..  ;D
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 5th, 2007, 6:52am

on 04/05/07 at 00:46:22, JiNbOtAk wrote:
What if he used the crowbar to trip his brother down ? His brother then would lose, since he cannot get up, due to his obese form.


[quote author=Iceman link=board=riddles_whathappened;num=1174945048;start=25#37 date=03/27/07 at 11:13:12]
Nobody tripped.

:-[/quote]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Lightboxes on Apr 5th, 2007, 10:31am
I thought the answer was China.
The fact that they were on Earth and were "between" the gun and crowbar.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 5th, 2007, 10:43am
So how does the obesity thing come into play?

I recall him telling us that the scenario was unlikely to happen for two regular guys.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 6th, 2007, 2:27am
Aha.  They are sumo wrestlers.

David picked up the crowbar which was inside of the circle.  Tom by running towards the gun stepped out of the ring.  By sumo rules David won.  The fact that immediately afterwards Tom picked up the gun and shot 6 bullets (and a few empty "clicks") at David is irrelevant to the riddle.  And what it was that David told Tom to make him react like that is better left unheard.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Apr 6th, 2007, 2:40am
If that's true, how does the floor come into play ? And I thought sumo was practised in Japan, the Chinese prefer kungfu..

Icey would probably give a really simple answer, and we'll all feel like a real doofus..  :-[
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 6th, 2007, 7:23am

on 04/06/07 at 02:27:41, Grimbal wrote:
Aha.  They are sumo wrestlers.

David picked up the crowbar which was inside of the circle.  Tom by running towards the gun stepped out of the ring.  By sumo rules David won.  




on 03/28/07 at 06:47:06, Iceman wrote:
The one who hurts badly or kills the other wins.

Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 6th, 2007, 7:49am
Hm... maybe I should review the whole thread...
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 6th, 2007, 7:53am
I had neglected to put this info in my summary above...

There... its been added.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 6th, 2007, 11:56am

on 03/29/07 at 08:05:42, Iceman wrote:
Let me say now, with assurance, that when he grabbed the crowbar, he didn't use any other hard objects.



on 03/27/07 at 20:04:36, Iceman wrote:
Nothing high was involved.  ;)


Was a soft, deep, giant worm involved?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 6th, 2007, 2:23pm
Hmmm. A worm may be a bit slow. What about that ridicoulously super fast anaconda from that film of  the same name? In this case, an anaconda that is trained to only devour obese people on a cue given by a crowbar pointed in the direction of the target.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 6th, 2007, 3:39pm
I was thinking of the movie "Dune".  Giant worms live underground and move as fast as a whale in water.  They can be controlled by a kind of pneumatic hammer.  They are sensitive to vibrations on the surface.

By throwing the crowbar at the ground in front of his brother David could have attracted the worm to get his brother.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 6th, 2007, 3:50pm
Oh yes, those big worms in Dune. Like the ones in Tremors.  But.....


on 04/06/07 at 15:39:54, Grimbal wrote:
By throwing the crowbar at the ground in front of his brother David could have attracted the worm to get his brother.



on 03/26/07 at 14:37:28, Iceman wrote:
But David wins, even though he didn't throw anything    


In any case Tom's running towards the gun would make enough vibrations for the giant worm to pick up. As long as he doesn't pick up on David's steps first.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 7th, 2007, 6:12am
You have something better to propose?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 7th, 2007, 6:27am
Hmmm. Not at this moment.

I think there is another object (not a hard object) being used that may be key....

But at this point I can't come up with the combination of things that are required for the scenario to work as outlined in the summary above. I keep tripping up on the obesity part.

I'll let it percolate in my mind though (as I have been doing for the last couple of days)

I woudn't mind if Iceman could confirm if the summary is accurate. He's been MIA for a few days now.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by chad1 on Apr 7th, 2007, 5:56pm
does either of them have a life-threatening disease?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Apr 7th, 2007, 7:32pm
Should we assume that they are both in good health?  Might they be in wheelchairs?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 10th, 2007, 12:18pm

on 04/04/07 at 12:13:33, denis wrote:
Here are a few facts uncovered from previous questions (Iceman, correct any inconsistent facts):

-The scenario makes use of the obesity of David and Tom. The scenario is unlikely to occur with two normal weight people or thin people.

-The one who wins is the one who kills or badly injures the other

-David does actually get to the crowbar but does not strike Tom with it. He does something else with it that leads to Tom's defeat.

-The floor or surface on which they are fighting *may* be part of the key to the solution. But it does not involve ice, glass, water or debris.

True.



on 04/04/07 at 12:13:33, denis wrote:
1) Are there any other non-hard objects that are key to the solution?

Yes.



on 04/04/07 at 12:13:33, denis wrote:
2) Is the floor type/configuration part of the key to solving this or is it only peripherally involved in the solution? You mentionned that this scenario can occur outside or inside so I cannot reconcile this with the floor or ground being key to the solution.

The floor is not involved peripherally.  ;)




on 04/04/07 at 12:13:33, denis wrote:
3) Since we know that David does not strike Tom with the crowbar, Is the crowbar used on the floor in some particular manner?  Otherwise, is it used in conjunction with the other non-hard object(s) that may be possibly used?

Something like that.




on 04/04/07 at 20:17:34, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Does he use the crowbar to pry out a piece of the floor, sending his brother through a gap in the planks?

No. The floor is solid and stable.




on 04/05/07 at 00:46:22, JiNbOtAk wrote:
Whew WTF, he must be really fast to pry a piece of before he got shot..  :o

What if he used the crowbar to trip his brother down ? His brother then would lose, since he cannot get up, due to his obese form. They were fighting on a smooth surface, which facilitate his brother tripping, and ensuring his brother would rock to sleep trying to get up..  ;D

He didn't fall down. Not that fast, anyway.  ;D




on 04/06/07 at 02:27:41, Grimbal wrote:
Aha.  They are sumo wrestlers.

David picked up the crowbar which was inside of the circle.  Tom by running towards the gun stepped out of the ring.  By sumo rules David won.  The fact that immediately afterwards Tom picked up the gun and shot 6 bullets (and a few empty "clicks") at David is irrelevant to the riddle.  And what it was that David told Tom to make him react like that is better left unheard.

They are not wrestlers.



on 04/06/07 at 11:56:19, Grimbal wrote:
Was a soft, deep, giant worm involved?




on 04/06/07 at 14:23:10, denis wrote:
Hmmm. A worm may be a bit slow. What about that ridicoulously super fast anaconda from that film of  the same name? In this case, an anaconda that is trained to only devour obese people on a cue given by a crowbar pointed in the direction of the target.

It wasn't that movie. ;)



on 04/07/07 at 06:27:07, denis wrote:
I woudn't mind if Iceman could confirm if the summary is accurate. He's been MIA for a few days now.

I was kicked for a week from the Internet because I was rude on some other forum. I am decent here though, as I prefer this particular forum. That other forum sucks. ::)




on 04/07/07 at 17:56:16, chad1 wrote:
does either of them have a life-threatening disease?



on 04/07/07 at 19:32:13, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Should we assume that they are both in good health?  Might they be in wheelchairs?

Aside from their obesity , their health is just fine.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 10th, 2007, 1:38pm

Thanks for the clarifications.

Btw Ice, you now have another riddle already made: "what were the rude words I used that got me kicked off the Internet for a week?"
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 10th, 2007, 3:37pm

on 04/10/07 at 13:38:07, denis wrote:
Thanks for the clarifications.

So are you smarter now, or dumber?  ;D
Title: Re: Duel
Post by thecow135 on Apr 15th, 2007, 11:46am
uh did he use the crowbar as a sled of some sort.. cuz fat people can do that =P or did he slide on the floor himself?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 15th, 2007, 12:49pm
No sled, no slide, no winner ride.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 18th, 2007, 6:22am
Hint: [hide]it was a scene from a certain movie, kind of. So all you have to do is to borrow 100 movies from the 'action' section, and you will have the winner![/hide]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 18th, 2007, 1:58pm
Do both have to be obese for the scenario to happen or just one of the two need be obese?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 19th, 2007, 2:10am
I'd say one. Then again, it is not so crucial to be obese at all, but it is more correct like that.  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Apr 19th, 2007, 9:46pm
Hmm..movies with obese ppl fighting..the klumps obviously popped into mind, although I couldn't seem to remember anything about a crowbar.. I'll keep on thinking though, since this riddle is driving me nuts !!
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 20th, 2007, 2:49am
I thought that you were already nuts because of your avatar.  :P And note that they didn't have any other possessions.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 20th, 2007, 3:23am
Nude :o

define: crowbar. ;D
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 20th, 2007, 3:41am
Cold, hard, iron, and it comes in handy. Does it not? ::)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Apr 20th, 2007, 7:29pm

on 04/20/07 at 02:49:13, Iceman wrote:
I thought that you were already nuts because of your avatar.  :P  


You'll pay for that Icey !!  >:(

http://www.geocities.com/meorhamzah/icey.jpg
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Icarus on Apr 20th, 2007, 7:34pm
Nah. that can't be it. Neither of those figures is obese!
Title: Re: Duel
Post by thecow135 on Apr 20th, 2007, 8:38pm
lol
he does use the crowbar and the floor together rite?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 21st, 2007, 5:06am

on 04/20/07 at 20:38:40, thecow135 wrote:
lol
he does use the crowbar and the floor together rite?

Huh?





I am not so thin, Jinbotak. But you got the crowbar right. :P
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 21st, 2007, 7:25am

on 04/19/07 at 21:46:36, JiNbOtAk wrote:
Hmm..movies with obese ppl fighting..the klumps obviously popped into mind, although I couldn't seem to remember anything about a crowbar..

In that movie there were no obese characters. I just added that part, since it is more correct that way.  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on Apr 21st, 2007, 7:31am
A weird and gross ideas:
He shoves the crowbar in his navel( bellybutton) and pulls out some toxic lint, then launches it at him and he disintagrates in a toxic blob.
Icey, baned from the internet? what? do you live with your Mother? Even I dont. [/s]-[s]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 21st, 2007, 8:11am
Are there any animals involved?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on Apr 21st, 2007, 8:29am
Icey said no other solid objects, but he didnt say [/i]Liquids[i]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 21st, 2007, 9:04am
[hide]I think that tiber is on the right track.[/hide]  :o
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on Apr 21st, 2007, 11:26am
icey, i think you are contradicting yourself, or i think you cant spel.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 21st, 2007, 12:48pm
I corrected it.



Title: Re: Duel
Post by sxiz on Apr 21st, 2007, 5:08pm
[hideb]This wouldn't have anything to do with Half-Life, would it? :p[/hideb]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 22nd, 2007, 3:48am
No. Although, there might be striking resemblance with a particular character.    ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on Apr 22nd, 2007, 4:51pm
i swear you were contrdiction yourself
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on Apr 23rd, 2007, 5:06pm
is thuis possible without obeise characters? Does the fact that it is a crobar that he uses effect it against say, baseball bat?does the fact that there is a gun, or would a slingshot work?
I dont like half-Life, played it once, just kill stuff
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 24th, 2007, 2:34am

on 04/23/07 at 17:06:38, tiber13 wrote:
is thuis possible without obeise characters?

It is possible.  




on 04/23/07 at 17:06:38, tiber13 wrote:
Does the fact that it is a crobar that he uses effect it against say, baseball bat?

It is not possible with the baseball bat, only with iron crowbar.




on 04/23/07 at 17:06:38, tiber13 wrote:
does the fact that there is a gun, or would a slingshot work?

This is pretty much irrelevant. Focus on the crowbar.




on 04/23/07 at 17:06:38, tiber13 wrote:
I dont like half-Life, played it once, just kill stuff

What kind of stuff? ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 24th, 2007, 8:09am
Does electricity have a role in the story?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 24th, 2007, 8:53am
No.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 24th, 2007, 9:24am
For the liquid are we talking about:
-plain water?
-a flammable liquid like gasoline?
-a supercold liquid like liquid nitrogen?

he breaks a huge tank of supercold liquid nitrogen with the crowbar (like in the movie Terminator II).

or

he breaks a tank of gasoline with the crowbar then ignites it. The brother, being obese cannot run fast enough to escape the flaming liquid.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 24th, 2007, 12:28pm
or maybe the flammable liquid was already on the floor and all the first brother need to do was to spark it with the crowbar because at this point the second brother is soaked (in fact they are both soaked from the figthing but the first brother is carefull to step away from the puddle before he sparks it). Further suppose they were on a metallic floor so that the crowbar would ignite the liquid with just a spark and engulf the the other brother in flames.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 24th, 2007, 1:48pm
Yes! :o Note that it is not necessary for the other brother to be soaked as well.   ;)  
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on Apr 24th, 2007, 1:51pm
Thanks to Tiber13 for "sparking" this idea by way of his suggestion that a liquid was used. 8)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on Apr 24th, 2007, 2:38pm
Obviously they had to be obese... ???
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on Apr 24th, 2007, 7:03pm
in half life, you kill,...aliens? Not to fun. the physical aspect of the crowbar is what counts.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on Apr 25th, 2007, 2:39am
Which movie is that supposed to be from ??
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 25th, 2007, 7:26am
I think Money Train.




on 04/24/07 at 14:38:34, Grimbal wrote:
Obviously they had to be obese... ???

Nobody said that they have to be obese, just that it is more correct that way. Do you know how fast the fire is that catches a highly flammable liquid? Didn't think so. I mean we don't want a sprinter here, who would get to the gun and even kill the other twin before fire catches him. Fat dude is a better choice if you ask me, since I dunno much about the above fire, how fast it really is. Just because it is really fast in Hollywood movies, it doesn't necessarily make it so.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 29th, 2007, 8:41am
Out of curiosity, :-/ what is approximately the speed of the above fire? In Hollywood movies, it is really fast, but is it like that in real life? I mean the floor is covered in gasoline or a highly flammable liquid, right? So when you drop a match, will the entire floor be in fire in no time, or that is just Hollywood fantasy?       ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on Apr 29th, 2007, 9:48am
i tried it, yes it does go that fast. (never do it again)
was the gun empty, or jammed, we may of gone through this... De Ja Vu ... De Ja Vu
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on Apr 29th, 2007, 10:45am
Thanks, pyromaniac. :P What did you use, gasoline?  
Title: Re: Duel
Post by tiber13 on May 2nd, 2007, 5:04pm
better read before i post.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by JiNbOtAk on May 9th, 2007, 3:07am
I actually saw the movie last weekend ( yeah, it was Money Train ), and you know what Icey, knowing what is gonna happen to that Torch guy never made it any more believable. I mean, Snipes was really lucky to get spark on the first hit, and that spark would ignite nearly at the speed of light towards the other guy. Oh well, that's Hollywood for you.

Maybe you could propose the scene to Mythbusters ? They'd be glad to fry up someone..  ;D
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Grimbal on May 9th, 2007, 3:36am
There is a web site that examines the physics of movies.
http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/
There is a paragraph about igniting a pool of gasoline with a lit cigarette.  They couldn't reproduce the experiment.  It would probably be the same with sparks.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by denis on May 9th, 2007, 8:29am
This from:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ShaniChristopher.shtml

"The flammable range of a liquid is the ratio of the flammable liquid to air that would create a volatile mixture. The flammability range of gasoline is between 1.4 and 7.6%. If the ratio of gasoline to air is less than 1.4%, then the mixture is to thin to burn. The mixture cannot burn when it contains more than 7.6% gasoline because it is too rich to burn.The vapor density is the weight of a vapor relative to the weight of air. The vapor density of gasoline is heavier than air and therefore will sink when in air."

So igniting can pose a problem under certain circumstances. But once is does ignite, my understanding is that the flame from ignited gasoline fumes spreads very fast.  Recall the explosions that sometime occur when the spark is created while someone is moving the nozzle from the gas tank after a static charge has accumulated.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Uncle Crimbo on May 9th, 2007, 8:37pm
I have two that are a bit far fetched..[hide]David had a magnet and used it to bring the gun and the crowbar to himself or his used teh gas and lit it and caused the bullets to explode in the gun damaging it permanently making it unusable.[/hide]
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Iceman on May 10th, 2007, 4:23pm
Say what you want but I say it is plausible,:-/ and that works for me. And I like Crimbo's magnet idea.  ;)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by srn347 on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:47pm
the one with the crobar hit the other ones hand when he reached for the gun. Why were they fighting anyway?
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Aurora on Sep 9th, 2007, 8:20am

on 03/26/07 at 14:37:28, Iceman wrote:
identical in all respects, regarding their physique and health... The gun is seven meters away, the crowbar just a meter away


srn347: This means that there is no way that one brother can can run nine metres to get the crowbar then go back to the other before he has run seven metres. Perhaps you should read the riddle thoroughly (as has already been suggested) before posting invalid comments on a thread which has been solved several months previously. >:(

BTW, apologies to other members who really don't need to be reading this. ::)
Title: Re: Duel
Post by srn347 on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:16pm
I would read it if there were less pages.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by Aurora on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:24am
The number of pages is irrelevant because this information was posted by Iceman in the original riddle, which is what you see as soon as you have clicked on the link for the topic.
Title: Re: Duel
Post by thecow135 on Sep 28th, 2007, 6:52pm
srn347 why are you here?!?!


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