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        riddles >> what happened >> Omen  
        
(Message started by: Iceman on Dec 13^th, 2006, 12:15pm)

Title: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 13^th, 2006, 12:15pm

John lost all of his money in his home by playing dice with Dave. He then proposes the following, as he wants to win his money back: 'I will take four dice and release just them, one by one, and I will do that on this table. Every die will go about 16 centimeters straight down, w/o brushing against anything, all four showing sixes when they stop moving on flat hard surface. And after I release each of the above dice, I myself mustn't interfere with them in any way. Also, I got just a minute, since no heavy preparations are involved, nor am I allowed to use a contraption of any sort, or anything sticky. So, if I win, I get my money back, plus yours. And if you win, you can have my Mercedes.' Dave agrees to this, and soon after he lost the money, but not due to luck. How then? :P

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Ulkesh on Dec 13^th, 2006, 12:58pm

The dice were loaded/had a six on all faces?

The dice were big and very heavy, so when he dropped them straight down (sixes face-up), they thudded against the table and didn't roll?

The Mercedes was stolen and he had to pay a fine equal to the amount he'd initially won after winning the dice game?

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 13^th, 2006, 1:10pm

on 12/13/06 at 12:58:36, Ulkesh wrote:

The dice were loaded/had a six on all faces?

The dice were big and very heavy, so when he dropped them straight down (sixes face-up), they thudded against the table and didn't roll?

No. Standard dice. ;)

Title: Re: Omen
Post by denis on Dec 13^th, 2006, 1:35pm

The mecedes could be legit but have a lien slapped on it for non-payments on the car loan. Soon as ownership of the Mercedes changes to Dave, Dave is stuck with the lien (not sure if onwership can change while a lien in in force though). The amount of the lien would be equivalent to the amount of money Dave won in addition to the Mercedes.

Or even simpler, no lien but the amount of the loan outstanding is owed by Dave upon change of Onwership.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 13^th, 2006, 1:49pm

Forget about the Mercedes. Just focus on the above minute.. ;)

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 13^th, 2006, 2:04pm

It is not a 100% certain thing, but very close to it, really. So the question is, what can he do to improve his chances for four sixes, since it takes a little practice, really.. 8) :-/

Title: Re: Omen
Post by denis on Dec 13^th, 2006, 2:09pm

If he has a minute, he could do many trials, altough to me it does not seem enough time to give a good chance a three sixes.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 13^th, 2006, 2:22pm

Sorry riddlers, because I have modified the riddle a little bit. :-[ It looks good now, 8) and I stand by it, so fire away with ideas if you got them. ;)

Title: Re: Omen
Post by denis on Dec 13^th, 2006, 2:30pm

Ok, now he can hit one die with the next in order to increase his chances. Still, there must be something more to it unless the guy can get really good at it.

Suposing he's allowed as many retrials within the minute then it doable.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 13^th, 2006, 3:03pm

on 12/13/06 at 14:30:21, denis wrote:

Ok, now he can hit one die with the next in order to increase his chances.

Not sure what you are driving at.. ???

on 12/13/06 at 14:30:21, denis wrote:

. Still, there must be something more to it unless the guy can get really good at it.

Yes, I think so. I mean, I know so.. What was I thinking!? ;D

on 12/13/06 at 14:30:21, denis wrote:

Suposing he's allowed as many retrials within the minute then it doable.

Nope. Once he releases the die, he cannot give it another try. And even if he could, he only has one minute, so what is the difference. :P

Title: Re: Omen
Post by denis on Dec 13^th, 2006, 3:36pm

While he says that "I musn't interfere in any way" does he use another person or trained animal to interfere?

Title: Re: Omen
Post by TheNumberScott on Dec 13^th, 2006, 4:58pm

do they touch anything between the 16 cm freefall and the flat surface?

or perhaps he drops them into a tube, which will not allow it to spin?

Title: Re: Omen
Post by ChunkTug on Dec 13^th, 2006, 6:25pm

He doesn't say they need to have the six face up. So as long as he doesn't roll any sixes face down he's okay.

Combine that with hitting any sixes face down with the next die to impove your chances.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by loptop7 on Dec 13^th, 2006, 8:38pm

i read this once in a manga (yu-gi-oh) where yugi drops a dice then spins the second dice and bumps the table according to whether the sesecond spinning dicce should hit the already landed dice to change its number.

i also thought of dropping it down a cylinder just wide enough so the dice can't turn on its descent but it would touch the paper

if its possible to alter the dice then sticking a magnet on the underside of the six and using a metal table may help

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Grimbal on Dec 14^th, 2006, 2:24am

on 12/13/06 at 12:15:37, Iceman wrote:

Dave agrees to this, and soon after he lost the money, but not due to luck.

It was not due to luck, but due to a lack of it.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 14^th, 2006, 7:52am

on 12/13/06 at 15:36:58, denis wrote:

While he says that "I musn't interfere in any way" does he use another person or trained animal to interfere?

No.

on 12/13/06 at 16:58:37, TheNumberScott wrote:

do they touch anything between the 16 cm freefall and the flat surface?

[hide]Yes[/hide].. ;)

on 12/13/06 at 16:58:37, TheNumberScott wrote:

or perhaps he drops them into a tube, which will not allow it to spin?

on 12/13/06 at 20:38:16, loptop7 wrote:

i also thought of dropping it down a cylinder just wide enough so the dice can't turn on its descent but it would touch the paper

The die will the brush against it, which is not allowed.

on 12/13/06 at 18:25:58, ChunkTug wrote:

He doesn't say they need to have the six face up

No. It has to be six.

on 12/13/06 at 20:38:16, loptop7 wrote:

i also thought of dropping it down a cylinder just wide enough so the dice can't turn on its descent but it would touch the paper

if its possible to alter the dice then sticking a magnet on the underside of the six and using a metal table may help

No magnet either.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by raven on Dec 14^th, 2006, 8:47am

16cm ~= 6"

[hideb]I suspect (without actually trying this) that if you dropped normal sized dice from that height, onto a hard surface, you would have little control of the outcome. However, if you dropped enormous dice from that height, there would be little chance of them rolling over![/hideb]

8)

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 14^th, 2006, 10:07am

Well, in the absence of a solid riddle, I have posted this little riddle. But don't worry, because from now on, I will post only great riddles! Now, it does mean something, even though I don't know what, but I think that a physicist can explain it to us.. So here is the answer: he uses a jug, or something like that, pretty even one, and pretty wide too, filled with water. For some reason, when I dropped the die, most of the times, and I dropped the die about 100 times, the die ended showing six! So I guess that if you have a steady hand, and the above jug, or something like that, you can enhance a lot your chances to win. But then I used a narrower jug, and not once did I get six. So it looks to me, that shape of a jug or something else that can hold water, can assist you to keep your Mercedes. I just cannot explain it, that's all. But maybe someone here can. ;)

Title: Re: Omen
Post by denis on Dec 14^th, 2006, 10:36am

Ahhh... I see.

Where I blocked was:

"nor am I allowed to use a contraption of any sort"

So I was trying to figure it out without any additional equipment. But I doubt I would have come up with this even if the restriction was not there.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Dec 14^th, 2006, 10:40am

Does that mean the jug was already on the table then? You do like the riddles where an important fact is left out. ;) I don't quite see how this would ensure they all show six, though.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 14^th, 2006, 11:36am

It does not ensure anything, but your chances are a lot better like that, especially if you have steady hand. After your comment, I have released, once more, 6 dice like that, and all of them end up showing six. Can you beat that? I did not think so! :P

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Grimbal on Dec 14^th, 2006, 3:16pm

You mean you drop them carefully with 6 on top or you drop then in any direction and the 6 ends up?

Title: Re: Omen
Post by flamingdragon on Dec 14^th, 2006, 3:50pm

Most likely drop them carefully with six up as he said it requires a steady hand.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Iceman on Dec 15^th, 2006, 5:43am

on 12/14/06 at 15:16:45, Grimbal wrote:

You mean you drop them carefully with 6 on top or you drop then in any direction and the 6 ends up?

The former.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Grimbal on Dec 15^th, 2006, 7:06am

I have to try that.

Title: Re: Omen
Post by Grimbal on Dec 15^th, 2006, 7:07am

But if you are soo bored when you take a bath, why don't you take a shower instead?

Title: Re: Omen
Post by cchris on Dec 15^th, 2006, 3:12pm

I see what happens when I study for finals for four straight days, I miss all the good riddles. Having just finished a dynamics section on impact a couple of weeks ago, I thought about the least elastic surface possible. Certainly not rubber, wood, or any of that. But what would slow down movement enough to allow dice to not bounce back when hitting a surface? I thought of liquid first, and well, that was the answer. Therefore I suggest if you really want to answer these riddles, make sure you forget about prior commitments.