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        riddles >> what happened >> A Car And Deer Puzzle
        
(Message started by: K Sengupta on Jul 19th, 2006, 11:45am)
Title: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by K Sengupta on Jul 19th, 2006, 11:45am
Detective H got out of his car and was walking toward the dead deer lying in the middle of the road when he noticed a car in the ditch. The detective ran down to the car and opened the door. He immediately recognized that it was  J.  J had a huge gash on his forehead, and his clothes were covered in blood. H noticed that the steering wheel was badly bent to one side where J's head must have been hit. H checked J's neck for a pulse and quickly determined that J and the deer had met the same fate. H struggled back up the muddy embankment to his car and called in to headquarters. " This is Detective H, I've got a dead deer and a murder victim in a 1997 dark blue Cadillac. I'm at .....".

Why would Detective H think that J had been murdered?

 
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by graphia on Jul 19th, 2006, 3:08pm
[hide]The deer was dead of a gunshot.[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cheesepuff on Jul 19th, 2006, 10:35pm
[hide]Detictive H was the one that ran over the deer[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Jul 20th, 2006, 12:26am
[hide]It doesn't sound like J's car hit the deer. So I'm assuming someone was trying to shoot the deer and the same bullet hit J, or perhaps someone shot them both intentionally. I like cheesepuff's answer.[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by graphia on Jul 20th, 2006, 1:01am

on 07/19/06 at 22:35:18, cheesepuff wrote:
[hide]Detictive H was the one that ran over the deer[/hide]


"quickly determined that J and the deer had met the same fate"
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Jul 20th, 2006, 4:14pm
So detective H [hide]pulled J's body out of the car, set him in the road, and accidentally backed over him?[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Icarus on Jul 20th, 2006, 4:40pm
[hide]The steering wheel was bent towards the driver. J had been struck by the driver of the car, came crashing through the windshield and struck the wheel. This is colaborated by the statement that it was J's head that struck the wheel, which couldn't occur if J were the driver.

It might have been an accident originally, but when the driver fled the scene instead of staying to render aid, it became murder.[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Jul 20th, 2006, 7:15pm
I think "murder" would be legally considered having an intent to kill. In most cases, [hide]wrecking into someone and driving off would be considered fleeing the scene of an accident,[/hide] but who knows. If I'm wrong, then I'll bet [hide]J was riding the deer.[/hide] Don't even ask why I came to that conclusion. It'd just be funny to see.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by graphia on Jul 20th, 2006, 10:54pm
[hide]Ok, "the steering wheel was badly bent to one side where J's head must have been hit" suggests he was hit by the steering wheel rather than he hit the steering wheel.  The only way I can think of that the deer met the same fate was that it was hit by the car but didn't die immediately, and the murderer battered it to death with the steering wheel.

That doesn't make much sense though, I stand by my original theory[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Grimbal on Jul 21st, 2006, 1:08am
[hide]J and deer were at a party.  They had a drink.  With ice.  Unfortunately, they drank it slowly.  When deer said it didn't feel well, J proposed to drive it back in the woods.  On the way, J fainted and the car crased in the ditch.  J was knocked out.  Deer got out of the car and called detective H for help.  But while it waited at the roadside the poison did its dirty job and killed both J and deer.
Detective H immediately knew they died from poisonning.  He himself put the poison in the ice.  He wanted to kill J and marry deer.  But he didn't expect J to share his drink with deer.
[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Jul 21st, 2006, 1:36pm
The deer and the J went into a cave, with a cooler. It contained baseballs that work as chapstick (and color your lips). The deer then opened the newspaper and killed himself before he drank the coffee, which J drank, but died becase the ice melted. However, they drank the same poison so they both died in the same manner. Then, M threw the deer and the man out of the cave into the road, took their briefcases and ran. He grabbed J and threw him into the window (as opposed to "out") of the car.

However, this does not solve how it was a murder. The poison was not supposed to kill the person who drank it, so Dr. Kevorkean was the murderer.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by alien on Jul 21st, 2006, 2:32pm
[hide]Air bag was deflated instead of inflated because it was pierced with a needle. And since there was no needle nearby, he deduced that the murderer took the needle with her. So the killer hit J. with a sledgehammer. Then she pierced the air bag with a needle, bent the steering wheel also with the sledgehammer, and put J. back behind the wheels to make it look like an accident. Also, the detective deduced that the killer was a dressmaker because of the needle. And since there is just one dressmaker in town, and she is victim's wife who is the sole inheritor, the detective smelled a strong motive for murder. As for the sledgehammer, her maiden name is Sledgehammer, and her father was blacksmith who died, so she inherited his sledgehammer.[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Icarus on Jul 21st, 2006, 8:36pm

on 07/20/06 at 19:15:46, cchris wrote:
I think "murder" would be legally considered having an intent to kill.


I cannot speak for other places, but in most (probably all) of the US, murder is defined more broadly than that. In particular, death that results from actions taken in the commission of a felony is murder, even if the actions were not intended to kill. (One of the finer points of law that can be learned by having the great misfortune to serve on the jury of a murder trial.) Hit-and-Run is a felony offense when people are injured.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Weazel on Jul 25th, 2006, 5:16pm

on 07/20/06 at 01:01:44, graphia wrote:
"quickly determined that J and the deer had met the same fate"

I think in this case, "met the same fate" simply means that both had been killed, not that they were killed in the same way. Detective H most likely could not determine cause of death from checking one's pulse.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by graphia on Jul 25th, 2006, 11:30pm

on 07/25/06 at 17:16:41, Weazel wrote:
I think in this case, "met the same fate" simply means that both had been killed, not that they were killed in the same way. Detective H most likely could not determine cause of death from checking one's pulse.


Not so sure I buy that, we are trying to figure out how Detective H could tell how J had died after just a cursory inspection.

Maybe K Sengupta could shed some light? :P
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by alien on Aug 6th, 2006, 4:50am
Since the embankment was muddy, perhaps there were pretty old unidentified footprints. It was a rather secluded road, and it did not rain for a few days. The person who made those footprints counted on rain to erase them. But the killer was way to trusting to weathermen. So the detective deduced it was a murder, otherwise that person would have nothing to hide, and report the accident by now.  :o
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by alien on Aug 6th, 2006, 5:21am

He must have had a head like a Tinnman.  ::) But if it was indeed a murder, I suppose we are to presume that somebody hit the victim with a heavy object outside of the car? So maybe my Tinnman remark is not so harmless, because there was a fixed speedometer near the ditch, not so noticeable because of a branch, or it was pretty dark. The last speed recorded on it was rather slow, that is, not fast enough for steering wheel to be badly bent to one side in described manner. And since nobody removed the dear from the middle of the road, the speedometer must have recorded the speed of victim's car, or something like that.   ;)


8)
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by ChunkTug on Aug 7th, 2006, 9:01pm
I think Alien got it pretty much right.
[hide]It was a 1997 model cadillac and air bags would be common for that recent a model. Had J hit the deer and crashed into the ditch the air bag would've deployed. It hasn't. The steering wheel has been bent as part of the staging.[/hide]

Though (as always :P ) the detective is guilty of jumping to conclusions. It's also likely the [hide]air bag malfuntioned.[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Aug 9th, 2006, 8:25am
One thing though: Do you realize just how much force it takes to mangle a steering wheel? Especially since it's somewhat close to the design of mine (I have a GM made truck) - it's almost impossible to break, metal reinforced the entire way around. [hide]So the person would've had to use a sledgehammer or something very very powerful, or didn't even think at all because even his head probably wouldn't do more than break the steering wheel away from the column (which it was designed to do). [/hide]

Basically, the "murderer" [hide] would've had to detach the steering wheel, take it outside, then bend it and reattach it. What an idiot.[/hide]
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Icarus on Aug 10th, 2006, 4:51pm
I'm sorry, but I bet that when K Sengupta ever reveals the answer, it will be mine.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Aug 10th, 2006, 7:03pm
Well yeah, just stating a little useless knowledge.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Aug 27th, 2006, 6:34pm
He hasn't really answered these riddles. Maybe he really does wait 5 months to post an answer.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Icarus on Aug 27th, 2006, 7:35pm
I don't know. I'm worried at this stage that he has moved on and doesn't visit this forum anymore.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by GeMsToNe on Aug 31st, 2006, 3:46am

on 08/27/06 at 19:35:52, Icarus wrote:
I don't know. I'm worried at this stage that he has moved on and doesn't visit this forum anymore.

That's sad...  :'(
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Icarus on Aug 31st, 2006, 3:06pm
Indeed, but it happens all the time.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by GeMsToNe on Sep 1st, 2006, 9:05am
I guess we'd have infinite time to solve this riddle, then.  :P
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by K Sengupta on Sep 3rd, 2006, 12:20am
ON  Jul 20th, 2006, 4:40pm, Icarus wrote:

[hide]The steering wheel was bent towards the driver. J had been struck by the driver of the car, came crashing through the windshield and struck the wheel. This is colaborated by the statement that it was J's head that struck the wheel, which couldn't occur if J were the driver.

It might have been an accident originally, but when the driver fled the scene instead of staying to render aid, it became murder. [/hide]


on Aug 10th, 2006, 4:51pm, Icarus wrote:


Quote:
......when K Sengupta ever reveals the answer, it will be mine.  


I furnish below the  solution in accordance with the book which includes the  problem under reference.

Amongst the myriad responses till date, I found that Icarus'  methodology is closest to the said solution.

Solution to the problem :

Detective H knows that the scene was staged and that J was put into the car already bleeding.

It would have been impossible for blood to be all over the step-plate, since the door would have been closed and prevented it from going anywhere beyond the interior.
Further, with an impact of this magnitude, the car's air bags  should have been triggered.

As Icarus rightly mentioned:

It might have been an accident originally, but when the driver fled the scene instead of staying to render aid, it became murder.
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by cchris on Sep 3rd, 2006, 1:48pm
I didn't remember anything about blood on the step-plate though..
Title: Re: A Car And Deer Puzzle
Post by Icarus on Sep 8th, 2006, 5:10pm
:-[ But that was not even close to my suggestion for how H knew! I thought it because the wheel was bent wrong.  But this was not the case at all. :'(


By the way, nice to hear from you again!


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