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(Message started by: ThudanBlunder on Oct 6th, 2008, 4:26pm)
Title: More Bridge
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 6th, 2008, 4:26pm
1) What is the fewest number of bids that can precede play in a game of contract bridge?

2) What is the number of bids preceding play in the longest possible legal auction?
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by rmsgrey on Oct 7th, 2008, 4:14am

on 10/06/08 at 16:26:50, ThudanBlunder wrote:
1) What is the fewest number of bids that can precede play in a game of contract bridge?

2) What is the number of bids preceding play in the longest possible legal auction?


Do you mean number of bids or number of calls? All bids are calls, but not all calls are bids...
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 7th, 2008, 6:53pm

on 10/07/08 at 04:14:31, rmsgrey wrote:
Do you mean number of bids or number of calls? All bids are calls, but not all calls are bids...

Good question, rmsgrey.
As a call is any expression of a bid, pass, double, or redouble, I should have asked about calls.
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by rmsgrey on Oct 8th, 2008, 12:01pm
In that case...

1) (minimum number of bids before play): [hide]one bid and at least three other calls[/hide]

2) (maximum number of calls in a legal auction): [hide]319 calls - 35 bids, 35 doubles, 35 redoubles, and 214 passes, though since each player will bid each suit (and no trumps) at least once, and most of them twice, it seems a highly unlikely auction...[/hide]
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 8th, 2008, 2:41pm

on 10/08/08 at 12:01:13, rmsgrey wrote:
In that case...

1) (minimum number of bids before play): [hide]one bid and at least three other calls[/hide]

2) (maximum number of calls in a legal auction): [hide]319 calls - 35 bids, 35 doubles, 35 redoubles, and 214 passes, though since each player will bid each suit (and no trumps) at least once, and most of them twice, it seems a highly unlikely auction...[/hide]

[hide]I make it
1) 3
2) 3 + (9 x 35) - 2 = 316
[/hide]
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by rmsgrey on Oct 8th, 2008, 4:46pm

on 10/08/08 at 14:41:02, ThudanBlunder wrote:
[hide]I make it
1) 3
2) 3 + (9 x 35) - 2 = 316
[/hide]

1) has many possible auctions:

[hide]1C,-,-,-[/hide] as an example

There is only one possible auction with no bids: -,-,-,- and that hand would then not be played.

2) I get the unique auction: [hide]-,-,-,{B,-,-,X,-,-,XX,-,-,}35-[/hide] for a total of [hide]3 + (9*35) + 1 = 319
The three final passes are forced, but the international laws of contract bridge do not, so far as I can determine, include a clause prohibiting them from being made - in fact, I haven't seen anything that would permit them to be skipped either.[/hide]
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 8th, 2008, 9:02pm

on 10/08/08 at 16:46:31, rmsgrey wrote:
1) has many possible auctions:

[hide]1C,-,-,-[/hide] as an example

Your example has 4 calls.
But how many have 3?
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by rmsgrey on Oct 9th, 2008, 9:14am

on 10/08/08 at 21:02:53, ThudanBlunder wrote:
Your example has 4 calls.
But how many have 3?

None. Ending an auction requires a specific sequence of three calls to take place at any point after the first call. No auction can end without each player making at least one call.
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 9th, 2008, 10:15am

on 10/09/08 at 09:14:17, rmsgrey wrote:
None. Ending an auction requires a specific sequence of three calls to take place at any point after the first call. No auction can end without each player making at least one call.

Really? So what is called after [hide]7 No Trumps, Double, Redouble[/hide]?
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by rmsgrey on Oct 10th, 2008, 9:00am

on 10/09/08 at 10:15:54, ThudanBlunder wrote:
Really? So what is called after [hide]7 No Trumps, Double, Redouble[/hide]?

The same sequence of calls that ends any auction: "pass", "pass", "pass"

It's a reasonable shortcut to not bother explicitly going through the forced calls, but (unless I've overlooked something) the laws of contract bridge do not allow for it (and it seems reasonable not to complicate the rules just to cater to a rare corner-case, so it's plausible that they don't)
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 11th, 2008, 1:57pm
I take your point, rmsgrey. But in view of the fact that after the three calls I mentioned there are no more possible bids, the auction ends there, irrespective of any imperfect rules.
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by rmsgrey on Oct 12th, 2008, 7:52am

on 10/11/08 at 13:57:49, ThudanBlunder wrote:
I take your point, rmsgrey. But in view of the fact that after the three calls I mentioned there are no more possible bids, the auction ends there, irrespective of any imperfect rules.

If you mean your question to ignore certain of the rules of the game, you should probably say so. Particularly among a community of quibblers like us, the letter of the rules is at least as important as the intent...
Title: Re: More Bridge
Post by ThudanBlunder on Oct 12th, 2008, 8:39am

on 10/12/08 at 07:52:16, rmsgrey wrote:
If you mean your question to ignore certain of the rules of the game, you should probably say so. Particularly among a community of quibblers like us, the letter of the rules is at least as important as the intent...

Agreed, the 4th player says "pass" and the other three fall out of their chairs in surprise. LOL


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