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        riddles >> medium >> Functional equation
        
(Message started by: wonderful on Sep 2^nd, 2008, 1:32pm)

Title: Functional equation
Post by wonderful on Sep 2^nd, 2008, 1:32pm

Can you find f(x): R--> R such that
f(x+f(y)) = f(y+f(x)) for every x, y in R?

Have A Great Day!

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by towr on Sep 2^nd, 2008, 2:12pm

Very easily? [hide]f(x)=x[/hide]
And of course [hide]f(x)=0[/hide]

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by pex on Sep 2^nd, 2008, 2:18pm

on 09/02/08 at 14:12:38, towr wrote:

Very easily? [hide]f(x)=x[/hide]
And of course [hide]f(x)=0[/hide]

And both of these plus an arbitrary real constant.

At least, if there are other solutions, they cannot be injective:
[hideb]Let f(x) be an injective solution.
Thus, f(x+f(y)) = f(y+f(x)) implies x+f(y) = y+f(x).
But then, for all x,y, f(x)-f(y) = x-y.
Or, for all x and y not equal, [f(x)-f(y)]/[x-y] = 1.
Taking the limit as y -> x, f'(x) exists and is equal to 1 for all x.
Thus, f(x) = x + constant.[/hideb]

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by wonderful on Sep 2^nd, 2008, 2:42pm

Great towr and pex! I also really like Pex's solution.

Have A Great Day!

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by pex on Sep 2^nd, 2008, 2:54pm

on 09/02/08 at 14:42:35, wonderful wrote:

Great towr and pex! I also really like Pex's solution.

Have A Great Day!

??? I wouldn't consider this one solved yet...

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by SMQ on Sep 2^nd, 2008, 3:43pm

Sure, pex proved the only injective solution is f(x) = x + C, but there are all kinds of non-injective solutions left to find!

towr notes f(x) = C as a trivial non-injective example. I'll also note f(x) = _{http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/lfloor.gif}x_{http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/rfloor.gif} + D, D http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/in.gif http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/bbz.gif and related families are solutions, as are f(x) = (x + C) mod m, m http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/in.gif http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/bbr.gif _{http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/ne.gif} 0 and related families. I'm sure there are many more as well -- pretty much any function that maps http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/bbr.gif http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/to.gif X http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/subset.gif http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBImages/symbols/bbr.gif in a "periodic", "non-stretchy" way should work!

--SMQ

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by Obob on Sep 3^rd, 2008, 3:21pm

Consider the following function:

f(x)=x if x is irrational
f(x)=0 if x is rational.

Then

f(x+f(y))=0 if x is rational and y is rational
f(x+f(y))=x if x is irrational and y is rational
f(x+f(y))=y if x is rational and y is irrational
f(x+f(y))=x+y if x is irrational, y is irrational, and x+y is irrational
f(x+f(y))=0 if x is irrational, y is irrational, and x+y is rational

from which it follows that f(x+f(y))=f(y+f(x)) in all cases. This gives a solution which is continuous at exactly 1 point.

This example can also be "composed" with SMQ's periodic examples, for instance by defining f(x) to be the remainder r of x with 0<= r < m after dividing by a rational (maybe irrational too, haven't thought enough about it) real number m whenever x is irrational and 0 otherwise.

More generally, if S is any subgroup of the real numbers under addition, it can take the place of the rationals in my construction.

For a much nastier example, choose a set of coset representatives for R/Q (or more generally R/S). Every element of R belongs to a unique coset of R/Q, so we can define a function R->R assigning a real number to the coset representative of the coset containing it. This function isn't even measurable.

Conceptually we can think of this construction as follows. If h:R->A is a homomorphism of abelian groups and A admits a function g satisfying the functional equation g(x+g(y))=g(y+g(x)) for all x,y, then any function s:A->R satisfying hs= id_A (i.e. any section, which we only require to be a function and not a homomorphism) induces a function f:R->R satisfying the functional equation. Specifically, f is given by f=sgh. Indeed, then

f(x+f(y))=sgh(x+sgh(y))=sg(h(x)+hsgh(y))=sg(h(x)+gh(y))=sg(h(y)+gh(x))=f(y+f(x)).

In our last example, h is the quotient map R->R/Q, g is the identity R/Q->R/Q, and s corresponds to the selection of a choice of coset representatives, where we have chosen the representative of Q to be 0.

For more down-to-earth examples, we could look at the homomorphism R->R/Z, with section given by the inclusion of R/Z into R as numbers x satisfying 0<=x<1. Again the identity R/Z->R/Z satisfies the functional equation, and the corresponding f:R->R is given by x->x (mod 1).

How much worse can these constructions get? Is f(x)=x+C the only nonconstant continuous solution?

It does follow from pex's argument that if f is continuously differentiable in a neighborhood of a point, then the derivative must be either 0 or 1. For if the derivative is nonzero, then f is locally injective and pex's argument applies to show that in fact the derivative is 1. Hence the only nonconstant globally continuously differentiable function f satisfying the equation is f(x)=x+C.

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by Grimbal on Sep 4^th, 2008, 1:00am

on 09/03/08 at 15:21:00, Obob wrote:

Consider the following function:

f(x)=x if x is irrational
f(x)=0 if x is rational.

Then

...
f(x+f(y))=y if x is rational and y is irrational

Hm...
if x is rational and y is irrational
f(x+f(y)) = f(x+y) = x+y
but
f(y+f(x)) = f(y+0) = y
so we don't have
f(x+f(y)) = f(y+f(x))

Title: Re: Functional equation
Post by Obob on Sep 4^th, 2008, 1:22am

My bad. You're right Grimbal.

The pathological example that I give later does work, however. In particular, the one where you pick coset representatives of R/Q.