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        riddles >> medium >> White to Play and Win (I)
        
(Message started by: THUDandBLUNDER on Sep 30th, 2003, 10:46pm)
Title: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by THUDandBLUNDER on Sep 30th, 2003, 10:46pm
This is a standard chess puzzle.
Title: Re: White to Play and Win
Post by Lightboxes on Oct 1st, 2003, 1:41am
SHEESH!
Me and my cousing played this one out and WE BOTH came to the conclusion that [hide]black[/hide] would win no matter what [hide]white[/hide] does (white to move).  Now I just realized that (hint)
::[hide]White can force a dilemma for black.  In other words, damned if you do, and damned if you don't. [/hide]::

Added:
GEEZ LUIZ!!!
White to move.
Now I just realized that I was wrong again!  ???
::[hide]White "forces" a draw first, then black finishes the force and forces the draw.[/hide]::

*SIGH!*
I'm getting tired of modifing this so I'll just leave it to the other members of this forum to find out the final solution.  I'm not sure, yet, who wins because it depends on what
::[hide]white decides to do with the queen.[/hide]::
Title: Re: White to Play and Win
Post by towr on Oct 1st, 2003, 2:18am
Well, as the title says, white is to win. So I assume white will, indeed, win.
It's not a question of if, but of how.
Title: Re: White to Play and Win
Post by wowbagger on Oct 1st, 2003, 7:57am
One quickly realises that [hide]White's h-pawn and Black's a-pawn need equally many moves to promote[/hide]. This is not a problem for White as long as [hide]Black's pawn remains on file a[/hide]. If, however, [hide]we let Black capture on b5, he can play b1Q directly following h8Q. After this, White has no forced win[/hide]. Therefore, we play [hide]1. b6+ in order to prevent Black from promoting on file b[/hide].
Title: Re: White to Play and Win
Post by Lightboxes' Clone on Oct 1st, 2003, 8:13am
The real problem I see is that the black king...
::[hide]doesn't have to capture the pawn.  If he/she plays carefully, then it can be a draw IF white's queen captures black's queen[/hide]::
Title: Re: White to Play and Win
Post by wowbagger on Oct 1st, 2003, 8:26am
You're right, Lightboxes' Clone. After [hide]1. b6+ Kb8[/hide], the fact that White promotes first and can capture Black's queen isn't of any help.
Maybe I'll think about it a little more this evening. For now, it's time to go home.
Title: Re: White to Play and Win
Post by Mike_V on Oct 1st, 2003, 7:03pm
Well, white could always promote to a bishop instead of a queen. But then I don't see a forced mate after that. (If black just stays in the upper left area, white's stuck.)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win
Post by Mike_V on Oct 2nd, 2003, 1:49am
Rather in the stalemate situation mentioned, [hide]after both promote to queens, instead of taking the black queen, if white moves queen to g8, I can't think of any good moves black could make to prevent white from moving king to row 7 and uncovering checkmate (or at least mate in 1)[/hide].
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by Lightboxes' Clone on Oct 2nd, 2003, 9:25am
what about a2?
:)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by Barukh on Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:41am
THUDandBLUNDER, are you sure the original position is correct: [hide]What's the position of white's King?[/hide]
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by unkwoop on Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:49am
Sorry, I don't know how to hide the text but I'm thinking the following sequence would probably work?

[hide]1. b6+, Kb8
2. h4, a5
3. h5, a4
4. h6, a3
5. h7, a2
6. h8(Q), a1(Q)
7. Qe8, Qa4 (otherwise the revealed checkmate)
8. Qe5+, Ka8
9. Qh8, Qf4
10. Kd7+, Qb8
11. Qa1+, Qa7
12. Qa7++[/hide]

I may have missed something though!

// text hidden by towr
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by towr on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:04am
To hide text use
[hide] text to be hidden [/hide]
You can find more about hiding text here (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_suggestions;action=display;num=1043138466)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by THUDandBLUNDER on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:25am

Quote:
1. b6+, Kb8
2. h4, a5
3. h5, a4
4. h6, a3
5. h7, a2
6. h8(Q), a1(Q)
7. Qe8, Qa4 (otherwise the revealed checkmate)

If 7. Qe8 Qg7
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by THUDandBLUNDER on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:43am

Quote:
THUDandBLUNDER, are you sure the original position is correct:

I take it as a compliment to my puzzle-choosing skills when people ask questions like that.  ;)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by unkwoop on Oct 3rd, 2003, 5:13am
Knew that I'd miss something!

Well, it seems that I just missed one move, so the adjusted sequence would be:
[hide]1. b6+, Kb8
2. h4, a5
3. h5, a4
4. h6, a3
5. h7, a2
6. h8(Q), a1(Q)
7. Qg8, Qa2
8. Qe8, Qa4 (otherwise the revealed checkmate)
9. Qe5+, Ka8
10. Qh8, Qf4
11. Kd7+, Qb8
12. Qa1+, Qa7
13. Qa7++
[/hide]

Thanks for the tip with hiding towr.
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by Icarus on Oct 3rd, 2003, 4:34pm

on 10/03/03 at 01:04:08, towr wrote:
To hide text use
[hide] text to be hidden [/hide]
You can find more about hiding text here (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_suggestions;action=display;num=1043138466)


Now that's slick! All this time explaining about the spaces I put in, and here is a way to show it like it's supposed to be. :)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by towr on Oct 4th, 2003, 11:04am

on 10/03/03 at 16:34:28, Icarus wrote:
Now that's slick! All this time explaining about the spaces I put in, and here is a way to show it like it's supposed to be. :)

Thanks  8)
Even though it's not the first time I used that trick (I also used it a few times in the thread about the hide tags itself)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by wowbagger on Oct 5th, 2003, 11:53am

on 10/03/03 at 05:13:30, unkwoop wrote:
Well, it seems that I just missed one move, so the adjusted sequence would be:
[hidden]

Could it be that your adjusted sequence is the same as the first one?

I think we could [hide]just use the same theme, but moving only step to the left with the queen, i.e.,
6. h8Q a1Q
7. Qg8 Qa2
8. Qf8 Qa3 (8. ... Qh2 9. Kd7+ Qb8 etc.)
9. Qe8 Qa4
10. Qe5+ Ka8
11. Qh8 ...
[/hide].
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by THUDandBLUNDER on Oct 5th, 2003, 12:18pm

Quote:
9. Qe8 Qa4

Oops, if 9. Qe8 Qd6+ and White is in danger of losing.
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by unkwoop on Oct 5th, 2003, 7:05pm
wowbagger, no there is an extra move in my ammended sequence! I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that thud would have informed me by now if I was still wrong! :)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by THUDandBLUNDER on Oct 5th, 2003, 10:55pm

Quote:
I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that thud would have informed me by now if I was still wrong!

Yes, unkwoop, your solution is correct.

(Kasparov took 2 minutes and 15 seconds to solve this puzzle using only the diagram.)
Title: Re: White to Play and Win (I)
Post by wowbagger on Oct 6th, 2003, 3:48am

on 10/05/03 at 19:05:18, unkwoop wrote:
wowbagger, no there is an extra move in my ammended sequence! I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that thud would have informed me by now if I was still wrong! :)

Congratulations, unkwoop!
I must have been quite thick to not even notice the different number of the last move...


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