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        riddles >> hard >> Hard- Fork problem
        
(Message started by: Cze-Jwin on Jul 24^th, 2002, 2:55am)

Title: Hard- Fork problem
Post by Cze-Jwin on Jul 24^th, 2002, 2:55am

the question to ask is..

what would your brother say is the correct path?

path a = wrong path
path b = correct path
brother 1 = always truth
brother 2 = always lies

if you asked brother 1, the answer would be path b

if you asked brother 2. the answer would also be path b
because brother 1 will say that path a is the correct one, to lie he has to say taht brother 1 will say path b

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by knox on Jul 25^th, 2002, 5:26am

Cze-Jwin I think the question is correct, but you headed in the wrong direction.

brother 1 (nice) knows his brother lies and will tell you the wrong path.
brother 2 (mean) knows his brother would give you the right way, to lie he will tell you the wrong path.

So the answer you get from both is the _wrong_ path.
Have fun at the cannibals. :D

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by Matt S on Jul 25^th, 2002, 10:52am

knox has it correct. Actually, CZE-Jwin had the the right question to ask, but his analysis was incorrect.

The solution: Ask the question -- "What would your brother say is the correct path?"

THEN take the OPPOSITE of whatever he says, since the answer given will be the path to the cannibals.

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by drdedos on Jul 25^th, 2002, 4:07pm

Another question that would work is if i pointed to a path and asked,
"If i asked you if that was the correct path, would you say yes?"

If the path I pointed to was the correct path,
- the truth-sayer would say "yes"
- the liar would lie and say "yes," since if i did ask him if it was the correct path, he would lie and say "no."

If the path I pointed to was the wrong path,
- the truth-sayer would say "no"
- the liar would lie and say "no," since if i did ask him if it was the correct path he would lie and say "yes."

Either way, you would know if the path you pointed to was correct or not, and can proceed as you wish.

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by Cze-Jwin on Jul 25^th, 2002, 5:42pm

hahah so i fergot to mention that you need to take the opposite path...

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by greg on Jul 25^th, 2002, 7:20pm

Why not ask him how many fingers your holding up, or what color the sky is?

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by greg on Jul 25^th, 2002, 7:26pm

or ask one of them if he has a brother.

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by DocBot on Jul 26^th, 2002, 8:52am

...well, that wouldn't really help you choose a path, now would it? ;)

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by neo on Jul 26^th, 2002, 10:57am

Ask any of them ;
"which path goes to your hometown?"

that's all :))

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by Gamer555 on Jul 30^th, 2002, 9:40am

Good job neo, that is another good solution.

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by Peter on Jul 30^th, 2002, 3:09pm

I can't see that neo's answer helps despite Gamer555's plaudits.

I've seen Cze-Jwin's answer before (many years ago, regretably) where you ensure you get a lie and act in that knowledge but I really like drdedos' answer where you force the liar to tell the truth ... well almost!

The real purpose of this note is to ask "what is the difference between fork problem #1 and fork problem #2?", have all angles been covered in the discussion above or is there, as is implied in the questions, a simpler answer to number 1?

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by smst on Aug 2^nd, 2002, 1:08am

on 07/30/02 at 15:09:17, Peter wrote:

There is a difference, and that difference is such that neo's answer will work for the first question (hence Gamer555's response). The crucial difference is that in the first problem, you know that the liar comes from the village of cannibals and that the truth-teller comes from the village of safety. Hence asking either one the direction to their own village will give you the necessary information:

The truth-teller will point you at his own village (which is where you want to go).
The liar will not point to his own village, but will lie and point to the village of safety.

Either way, they point at the correct path.

In the second problem the information linking individuals to villages is not given -- this lack of information makes the problem harder (as you rightly point out, neo's solution won't work in this case). I suspect that, even if we knew from which village the twins came, the problem would still require the indirect-question answer given above, since the simple "where are you from?" will yield different answers (because the truth in each case is the same village, so each twin will point to a different one).

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by Darkstar on Aug 26^th, 2002, 4:35pm

Hehe...
anyone seen "Into the Labyrinth"? The movie with David Bowie and Jennifer Connelly? That's where I knew the answer from :-)

--Darkstar

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by James Fingas on Aug 29^th, 2002, 6:43am

"Where are you from?"

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by arvind mayank on Oct 13^th, 2002, 2:13pm

;)what if there is only one brother (one person) and dont know that whether he always tells truth or lies.now whats the single question u gonna ask that person to know the correct path.

reply soon ;)

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by arvind mayank on Oct 13^th, 2002, 2:15pm

;)what if there is only one brother (one person) and u dont know that whether he always tells truth or lies.now whats the single question u gonna ask that person to know the correct path.

reply soon ;)

Title: Re: Hard- Fork problem
Post by TimMann on Oct 13^th, 2002, 6:24pm

on 10/13/02 at 14:15:35, arvind mayank wrote:

dredos replied to that one before you asked it. See reply #3 above. How's that for "soon"? 8)