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        riddles >> general problem-solving / chatting / whatever >> randomness controlled by mind?
        
(Message started by: pharaohs_supper on Feb 23^rd, 2010, 7:50pm)

Title: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by pharaohs_supper on Feb 23^rd, 2010, 7:50pm

Can one's mental concentration *ever* affect the randomness of any event? For example, coin toss should be 50-50 -- but what if one concentrates with all their might "tails tails tails." There are people that insist that it can be done. Any thoughts on this?

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by BenVitale on Feb 23^rd, 2010, 10:50pm

J.B. Rhine, in 1942, published a study in which he stated that gamblers and other people might mentally affect the outcome of dice falls. He labelled this the "psychokinetic effect'

I saw this at

http://www.williamjames.com/Science/PK.htm

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by towr on Feb 24^th, 2010, 12:51am

I don't think that's ever been replicated.

I would have to go with, no, it's not possible.
For one, there is no known mechanism by which it could work. Not unless you are throwing the dice/tossing the coin yourself and are physically influencing the result by the way you throw/toss them. After all, they are not actually random events, but subject to the physical deterministic laws of nature.

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by Grimbal on Feb 24^th, 2010, 5:37am

I tried. I can make tail-tail-tail come out. It works every time.

But I need to reach an extreme level of concentration, not easy to achieve. I manage that 1 out of 8 times only, because of various external disturbances. But when I reach that level it works every time.

::)

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by rmsgrey on Feb 24^th, 2010, 5:48am

You would expect the craps table at a casino to show strong evidence of any biasing by wishing - so either casinos have some way of blocking the effect, or it doesn't work (or craps tables pay out more than the expected amount)

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by Grimbal on Feb 24^th, 2010, 8:03am

What happens is that the casinos also wish to earn money. You can be sure they hire professional wishers for the task. A professional wisher beats an amateur any time. The amount of money the casinos earn is a good measure how well wishing works.

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by sherperr on Sep 5^th, 2011, 3:48am

I don't think this would be possible. People have been saying stuff like this for years. My Dad was staring at a matchbox sitting on the table one day and claimed with enough concentration he could move it...we visit him on weekends now :-X

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by Grimbal on Sep 5^th, 2011, 8:07am

In all my posts above, there is an implied ;) at the end.

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by wade32 on Apr 16^th, 2012, 8:01am

on 02/24/10 at 00:51:37, towr wrote:

I would agree

Title: Re: randomness controlled by mind?
Post by Grimbal on Apr 18^th, 2012, 9:41am

It is more likely this concentration doesn't bend the randomness of the outcome as much as your belief that it does. You overestimate the significance of the cases where it works and dismiss the cases where it doesn't, giving you an overall impression that there is a small effect.