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        riddles >> general problem-solving / chatting / whatever >> The System Wars
        
(Message started by: Roy on Aug 19^th, 2007, 8:50pm)

Title: The System Wars
Post by Roy on Aug 19^th, 2007, 8:50pm

I haven't looked to see if it has already been posted but i want to get everyone's opinion:

Which is the better operating system?

EDIT: Mac OSX Lepoard, Vista, XP or Linux?

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by towr on Aug 20^th, 2007, 12:41am

Mac and PC aren't types of operating systems, they are types of computers.
MacOS, WinXP, Vista etc are OS's

I only have experience with WinXP and Linux (mostly Fedora). The major advantage to linux is that it's free, and it is very well suited for programming (dozens of compilers and interpreters come practically standard). The advantage to WinXP is that it is assumed you have it (better support for new hardware, games etc); but this is also a disadvantage (viruses, malware).

If memory serves me right, the latest MacOS can run linux-binaries as well. But as I said, I don't have personal experience with it.

If you don't have experience with Linux, I've heard Ubuntu is a good one to try. And its free, so there's little risk in trying it out (I suppose if you're careless you could wipe out whatever is on your harddrive, but you can do that with a windows installation as well if you venture too far from normal installation procedures. Just be careful how you partition and format the partitions.)

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 20^th, 2007, 8:48pm

As far as computer goes, I'd say I prefer Mac over PC, though it's a bit more pricey. The reason is simple, Mac users are way cooler than PC users. ;D

As far as operating system goes, both Windows and Linux have their own pros and cons. Previously, installing a Linux system could be difficult, lately it had become relatively easy. Office suits are also available for the Linux platform, thus its a good alternative. I've only tried Red Hat version, but it's comfortable to use. The downside is if you're using your computer for games, then Windows is the OS for you. Though I haven't yet tried Vista, maybe anyone can comment on its performance ?

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 20^th, 2007, 8:57pm

I've had experience with all of those so this is my POV. Windows are easier to use and so are better for unskilled and unknowledgable users, Macs are good for everything and Linux is free (for those stingy people out there). That being said, i prefer Windows due to its simplicity.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Roy on Aug 20^th, 2007, 10:13pm

Since i grew up with macintosh computers and operating systems, i never actually knew of any other brands untill year 7, when windows was everywhere. I prefer the mac computers anyway, mostly because i like the design of the computers, especially the new imacs that are the computer and the moniter in one, i.e, less cables to work out.
Operating systems depends on what your using it for. If you're a games freak, you'd go with windows, being the main operating system that games work on these days. If you work professionally in an office complex or wherever, windows would probably be most people use, if not, office. Macintosh people that i've met usually are just looking to get creative and have some fun with iLife. I only know one person who uses linux at the moment, so i don't have many thoughts about that, but it seems to be a good operating system for just about anything, however i will stick with mac for now.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Sameer on Aug 20^th, 2007, 10:19pm

Sorry Mac users/fans... couldn't resist!!!

Courtesy: ctrlaltdel-online.com
http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20060513.jpg

Btw I use Windows for my daily mundane tasks and Linux for my work (programming, scripts, testing, etc. etc...) I have never had the need for using macs and I don't know if there will ever be one... although I must confess I have had temptations in buying one from now and then.. and of course visiting a apple store is always fun... by the way the mac spoof videos on youtube are hilarious too ... ;)

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 20^th, 2007, 11:04pm

Come on, that's not fair !! I'm a PC user all of my natural computer using life, and I still salivate at the idea of the new iMac.

Actually, how many of us here actually uses Mac ? And I mean serious users, the ones who have no idea how to work a PC ?

And how about serious Linux users ? Any of those here, who use Linux exclusively, without having to resort to windows for anything ?

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Grimbal on Aug 21^st, 2007, 1:02am

You can fall in love with a Mac. Not with a PC.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by towr on Aug 21^st, 2007, 2:41am

on 08/21/07 at 01:02:52, Grimbal wrote:

You can fall in love with a Mac.

Hmm, yes, yes you can indeed..

http://havard.no-ip.info/pics/links/eve_medium.png
(Eve from http://www.applegeeks.com/ , a Mac android girl. Certainly beats that damn X-Box robot from ctrl-alt-delete.)

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by TenaliRaman on Aug 21^st, 2007, 2:55am

I use both linux and windows. I use windows for games and linux for everything else (since everything else includes mundane surfing and programming). My suggestion, go for a PC and go multiboot!!

-- AI
P.S -> For linux, go with ubuntu, has nice forums and support. I use fedora because i like to screw things up a lot and fedora has a good tolerance level with me. If i seriously wanted to screw things up, i would have been using gentoo.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 21^st, 2007, 3:44am

I'm a PC person, but can happily use either.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Grimbal on Aug 21^st, 2007, 4:59am

I tried it with multi-boot Windows and Linux. But I had too many things under Windows, and it is a pain to switch, so in the end, I never booted under Linux.

I now have 2 computers, one Windows 2000, one Linux Debian. I do letters and mail on Windows, programming on Linux.

But for games, I boot another Windows partition. Games sometimes install funny stuff and it is good to reformat and reinstall the OS when it becomes instable.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by TenaliRaman on Aug 21^st, 2007, 5:19am

on 08/21/07 at 04:59:11, Grimbal wrote:

I now have 2 computers, one Windows 2000, one Linux Debian. I do letters and mail on Windows, programming on Linux.

But for games, I boot another Windows partition. Games sometimes install funny stuff and it is good to reformat and reinstall the OS when it becomes instable.

pwn3d!!!

-- AI

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Sameer on Aug 21^st, 2007, 11:44am

on 08/21/07 at 04:59:11, Grimbal wrote:

I tried it with multi-boot Windows and Linux. But I had too many things under Windows, and it is a pain to switch, so in the end, I never booted under Linux.

Use virtualization software... VMWare's new Fusion should make it simpler...

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 21^st, 2007, 3:53pm

What's with the name 'distro'?
And why so many versions?

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Roy on Aug 21^st, 2007, 5:12pm

on 08/20/07 at 22:19:45, Sameer wrote:

although I must confess I have had temptations in buying one from now and then.. and of course visiting a apple store is always fun... by the way the mac spoof videos on youtube are hilarious too ... ;)

Apple stores are fun :) When i was a kid my dad made a video using graphic converter of an imac smashing all the windows logos with a baseball bat, he did it for some demo for his comittee, but he never uploaded it, he just talked about putting music onto it and showing everyone who came into our house the video.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 23^rd, 2007, 4:07pm

on 08/21/07 at 15:53:23, ThudanBlunder wrote:

What's with the name 'distro'?
And why so many versions?

OK, I'll look it up myself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Sameer on Aug 23^rd, 2007, 10:17pm

on 08/23/07 at 16:07:31, ThudanBlunder wrote:

OK, I'll look it up myself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution

Oh I thought it was a rhetorical question!! :-[

Think of it this way. Let's say MS was only managing the windows kernel, a stripped down basic IO managing stuff. Then you create a company or a startup, add ur stuff and release T&B Windows 1.0. This will become one of the distributions of the OS. Let's say Jinbotak adds the hot malaysian softwares onto the core and releases J2.0 as another distribution... these things tend to happen on open source projects. I think Linux keeps a tight control on the kernel of Linux however recently there has been some flak on the scheduler he has gone for the latest one.. such things tend to split projects and create even more products.. *sigh*...

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 24^th, 2007, 1:59am

Which hot Malaysian software is that Sameer ? ::)

What I know is, the Linux kernel itself is distributed free, as long as you're capable programmer, and enjoy the challenge, you could always dowload the kernel and add in stuffs, like the extra hot and spicy software Sameer was talking about. However, you are not permitted to market that as a new product, or something like that.

I'd have to read up on GPL again, the details are hazy. :P

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by towr on Aug 24^th, 2007, 3:11am

You can market it as a new program, but it has to remain free, I think. But you can still make money off it by providing services like tech support.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by SMQ on Aug 24^th, 2007, 3:44am

GPL in a nutshell: You can do anything you want with the software: run it, recompile it, modify it, give it away, even sell it -- whatever you want; however, if you distribute it, a modified version of it, or something else derived from it, 1) You can't take credit for parts you didn't write, 2) your modifications or derivations must themselves be licensed under the GPL, and 3) You must make the source code to those modifications or derivations available so that others can exercise the same freedoms with your software that you did.

As the saying goes: free as in "free speech," not necessarily free as in "free beer."

--SMQ

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 24^th, 2007, 4:35am

Great summarising quote.I've never heard it before. I'll use that to sound smart. ::)

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by TenaliRaman on Aug 24^th, 2007, 6:48am

on 08/24/07 at 04:35:46, mikedagr8 wrote:

Great summarising quote.I've never heard it before. I'll use that to sound smart. ::)

Start reading up slashdot.org, you will learn several such lines (actually you will practically memorise it after seeing it repeatedly over and over again).

-- AI

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 24^th, 2007, 6:54am

There's probably a site quotesthataregood.somthing or other, I'm assuming so becusae there is an equivalent for lines which my friend gave to me. I'll memorise what I can there.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by towr on Aug 25^th, 2007, 4:48am

on 08/24/07 at 03:44:33, SMQ wrote:

It seems a bit inconsistent; on the one hand 'You can do anything you want with the software: run it, recompile it, modify it, give it away, even sell it' and on the other hand, "not necessarily free as in 'free beer.' "?
It seems that you should always be able to get any piece of GPL software without paying for it; although possibly you might need to compile it yourself.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by rmsgrey on Aug 25^th, 2007, 11:20am

on 08/25/07 at 04:48:16, towr wrote:

It seems that you should always be able to get any piece of GPL software without paying for it; although possibly you might need to compile it yourself.

Whenever you acquire a piece of GPL software, you will get the source as well, and can pass that on as you see fit, but, if you paid for it, why would you not pass that cost on to other people?

Maybe you can get hold of it for free (or for a minimal distribution charge) but it's possible that everyone with a copy is a tight bastard and charges an arm and a leg for it...

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by towr on Aug 26^th, 2007, 7:11am

on 08/25/07 at 11:20:22, rmsgrey wrote:

It only takes one person to put it online for free.
And considering that even for proprietary software there's always someone that shares it for free, I can't see why that wouldn't be the case for free software.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by rmsgrey on Aug 26^th, 2007, 9:06am

on 08/26/07 at 07:11:05, towr wrote:

I grant you, it's unlikely not to be able to find it for free, but it could happen

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by SMQ on Aug 27^th, 2007, 6:45am

on 08/25/07 at 04:48:16, towr wrote:

It seems that you should always be able to get any piece of GPL software without paying for it; although possibly you might need to compile it yourself.

True. But the intent is that there's nothing stopping a company -- e.g. redhat (http://www.redhat.com) -- from selling a product licensed under the GPL -- e.g. Linux -- with some other value-added software or service. While the GPL software is indeed available for free if you're willing to (patch and) compile it yourself, the value-add need not be.

--SMQ

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by towr on Aug 27^th, 2007, 8:07am

Well yes, but it's also not impossible to sell people chips and give them a free beer to boot.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 29^th, 2007, 2:00am

on 08/27/07 at 08:07:23, towr wrote:

Well yes, but it's also not impossible to sell people chips and give them a free beer to boot.

Hmm, I thought its the other way round, you sell the beer, the nuts are free. Unless its really good nuts, that people would really want, without ~~with~~ which, the beer would be tasteless.

<Sorry for the confusing typo :P>

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 29^th, 2007, 2:06am

on 08/29/07 at 02:00:31, JiNbOtAk wrote:

Hmm, I thought its the other way round, you sell the beer, the nuts are free. Unless its really good nuts, that people would really want, without with the beer would be tasteless.

I don't understand the last sentence.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by towr on Aug 29^th, 2007, 5:56am

on 08/29/07 at 02:06:46, mikedagr8 wrote:

I don't understand the last sentence.

The last "with" should probably have been a "which".

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Sir Col on Aug 29^th, 2007, 2:40pm

I use XP, but recently I tried creating a dual boot Linux. I tried just about every "flavour" as there was something in each version that would not work on my machine, ranging from hanging-up whilst examining system hardware to refusing to recognise key components, like graphics card, sound card, et cetera.

It was very depressing and I wasted too many hours of my time trying to get it to work without success.

To compound my misery I found the support forums a waste of time. They were filled with questions identical to the problems I was having. Good news one would think... however, the members fitted into two categories: those who didn't have a clue but loved the sound of their own posts and the elitists who clearly begrudged newbies dabbling with their sacred platform. Actually there was a third type: the person who posted the original question and then after pages of unhelpful posts by other people would return to say something like, "It doesn't matter I figured it out anyway." Well thanks for taking the time share your resolution, buddy!

If it weren't for the ridiculous over-pricing I'd go for Mac. I have very simple requirements and even though the PC (Windows) works most of the time, it's the fact that it will occasionally fail for no good reason that frustrates me. More wasted time...

The reason I recently tried Linux was because of a horrid meltdown of XP. One day I started up my machine and was told during bootup that a critical system files became corrupt; a search in Google returned an alarming number of hits with people receiving the same message. The message advised me to use the Windows XP installation disc and go to the recovery console by pressing R. Unfortunately I have SATA drives but no floppy drive so I couldn't load the drivers required for XP to see my hard discs. After tricking BIOS and the Win XP CD into thinking that the connected USB floppy was a normal floppy I managed to get past this stage. I got to the recovery console and was greeted with a flashing cursor. So what was I supposed to do then? After much research it seems that I needed to overwrite the current system files with the original system files, which are created and backed up in a special folder during the original installation of XP. However when I tried to do this it asked me for the Administrator password. After several attempts of the correct password it reboots and you have to go through it all again. Back to Google... fortunately this is a known issue with Microsoft. The problem is that XP encrypts the password, but the command line compares the plain text entry with the hashed password. I was really lucky because the geniuses at MS had a fix: "Boot into Windows and go to..." Can anyone see the tiny flaw in the first part of this resolution? My only solution was to download some dodgy software that would blank the Admin password. The problem then is that I can no longer authenticate myself in XP as user files are encrypted with the original Admin pasword, which is now blank. So I was back in XP but had no access to my documents and the previous restore points that would have allowed me to revert to a safe boot.

I was forced to do a clean build and I'm currently stuck with XP, plus I am still none the wiser as to why the system files spontaneously corrupted in the first place. I am very unhappy and long for something that works. Life is too short to be wasting hours fixing something that shouldn't need fixing.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 29^th, 2007, 3:11pm

Sorry, to hear of your problems, Sir Col.

Since Win95 I have done many installs and re-installs of Windoze, both English and Chinese, for myself and other people. I reckon at one point I must have been the world's leading exponent of Fdisk. It wasn't much fun, so now I use Acronis True Image and make regular backups.

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 29^th, 2007, 5:52pm

on 08/29/07 at 15:11:50, ThudanBlunder wrote:

Since Win95 I have done many installs and re-installs of Windoze, both English and Chinese, for myself and other people.

Yup, I know the feeling. At one point, I was formatting my harddrive so often, I actually have the all Win98 installation files in my harddrive, not to mention the drivers for all my hardware ( I had 2 partitions, one created solely for this purpose )

And Sir Col, you are definitely right, life is much too short to spend your time fixing stuffs like this, maybe we should swear off computers for good ! ::)

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by Roy on Aug 30^th, 2007, 12:07am

for some unknown ;) reason, that seems like a bad idea

Title: Re: Mac or PC? (or linux)
Post by ima1trkpny on Aug 30^th, 2007, 10:35pm

*snickers with relief* Thank god I am not the only one with bizarre computer issues ;D My personal favorite of all the messages my computer has decided to greet me with was "Keyboard not recognized. Press any key to continue." I am rather computer challenged to put it nicely, but I can generally find a way to work through problems... that one however had me a bit stumped. :-/
Eddie Izzard on Computers (http://youtube.com/watch?v=k6C_HjWr3Nk) *warning contains PG-13 to R language a bit*