wu :: forums
        (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        riddles >> general problem-solving / chatting / whatever >> A discussion forum / email hybrid
        
(Message started by: amichail on May 21st, 2007, 12:34pm)
Title: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 21st, 2007, 12:34pm
The idea here is to combine public discussion forums with email.

When browsing through a public forum, you can give credits to people whom you would like to hear news from.

For example, you might give 2 credits to person A. A may then send you 2 emails (only).

So this encourages people to make insightful posts in public forums and email so that they can receive more credits to send personalized news.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by towr on May 21st, 2007, 12:57pm
I can't quite see the point. I could see the point to being notified when they start a new thread; but aside from that how/where does email sensibly come in?
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 21st, 2007, 1:11pm

on 05/21/07 at 12:57:40, towr wrote:
I can't quite see the point. I could see the point to being notified when they start a new thread; but aside from that how/where does email sensibly come in?

The point is to encourage people to say interesting things in public forums and to think carefully about what to email to whom.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by towr on May 21st, 2007, 1:39pm
But what, and why, would they want to email people?
I've never had any inclination to email anyone on this forum, except William when the site goes wonky; so that hardly counts as sending him interesting content.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 21st, 2007, 1:44pm

on 05/21/07 at 13:39:36, towr wrote:
But what, and why, would they want to email people?
I've never had any inclination to email anyone on this forum, except William when the site goes wonky; so that hardly counts as sending him interesting content.

Maybe you created something new and you would like to tell some people about it.  

People email each other for all sorts of reasons.  But not all email is appreciated.  This gives you something in between the spam / non-spam distinction.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by towr on May 21st, 2007, 1:58pm

on 05/21/07 at 13:44:37, amichail wrote:
Maybe you created something new and you would like to tell some people about it.  
I'd post it in the forum. That way I reach everyone, and bother no one.
Or I could PM them, if it wasn't for the general public.

I don't see added value to be honest. But maybe you'll have better luck with the next posters..
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 21st, 2007, 2:07pm

on 05/21/07 at 13:58:42, towr wrote:
I'd post it in the forum. That way I reach everyone, and bother no one.
Or I could PM them, if it wasn't for the general public.

I don't see added value to be honest. But maybe you'll have better luck with the next posters..

How is PM fundamentally different from email here?   You are still potentially irritating someone. The approach I described could cover both email and PM.

Also, what I described would improve contributions to public forums as well.  So even if you don't want anyone to email you anything, you would still benefit.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by Three Hands on May 21st, 2007, 2:33pm
Would it really, though?

I believe it is more likely to lead to something of a popularity contest culture on the boards, since you are essentially providing a means for people to say "I wish to talk with you more", rather than anything more discriminating. Considering this does not really require contributions to boards to "improve" - especially since you are being fairly loose with the concept of improvement, as one does not necessarily need to be thoughtful to be entertaining or considered likeable - I doubt the endeavour would produce the desired results, and would most likely change very little beyond giving people another toy to play with in the board community.

The other outcome I imagine you'd get would be posts made to request people give them credits in order to send them private information/news/whatever, or other such "spam" on the boards, for which PM currently provides a safe route around without compromising privacy (beyond the acts of hacking, but that is generally hard to avoid anyway).

Although the concept is well-meaning, I believe you would be very hard-pressed to come up with a system to "force" thoughtful, insightful or intelligent discussion beyond extremely draconian moderating.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 21st, 2007, 2:40pm

on 05/21/07 at 14:33:24, Three Hands wrote:
Would it really, though?

I believe it is more likely to lead to something of a popularity contest culture on the boards, since you are essentially providing a means for people to say "I wish to talk with you more", rather than anything more discriminating. Considering this does not really require contributions to boards to "improve" - especially since you are being fairly loose with the concept of improvement, as one does not necessarily need to be thoughtful to be entertaining or considered likeable - I doubt the endeavour would produce the desired results, and would most likely change very little beyond giving people another toy to play with in the board community.

The other outcome I imagine you'd get would be posts made to request people give them credits in order to send them private information/news/whatever, or other such "spam" on the boards, for which PM currently provides a safe route around without compromising privacy (beyond the acts of hacking, but that is generally hard to avoid anyway).

Although the concept is well-meaning, I believe you would be very hard-pressed to come up with a system to "force" thoughtful, insightful or intelligent discussion beyond extremely draconian moderating.

Someone spamming the forum asking for credits would probably not get any -- at least from anyone that they would want to talk to.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by towr on May 21st, 2007, 3:10pm

on 05/21/07 at 14:07:28, amichail wrote:
How is PM fundamentally different from email here?
Well, if that is the case, how is email different from PMs, which every forum already has?
What does it add?
Nothing, except that it now also clutters your email account, while with PMs it's nicely seperate (although on most forums you can be notified by email if you have new PMs)


Quote:
Also, what I described would improve contributions to public forums as well.  So even if you don't want anyone to email you anything, you would still benefit.
I don't see how this would improve a forum. No rating system I've ever seen on a forum improved it, usually quite the contrary.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 21st, 2007, 3:16pm

on 05/21/07 at 15:10:48, towr wrote:
Well, if that is the case, how is email different from PMs, which every forum already has?
What does it add?
Nothing, except that it now also clutters your email account, while with PMs it's nicely seperate (although on most forums you can be notified by email if you have new PMs)

I don't see how this would improve a forum. No rating system I've ever seen on a forum improved it, usually quite the contrary.

The distinction between email, PM, etc. is not important for this approach.  

The important distinction is between posting something in public and sending someone a private message.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by rmsgrey on May 22nd, 2007, 1:46pm
So effectively, you're talking about a forum where, rather than anyone being able to PM anyone else, you can only PM someone if they've previously said you can, and then only as many times as they've chosen to let you...

In my own experience, it's the unexpected PMs that have been the most interesting and worthwhile - in some cases from entirely new users who I wouldn't have had a chance to pre-approve...

If you want some selectivity in who can PM you, I'd be inclined to implement a blacklist rather than a (rationed) whitelist...
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 22nd, 2007, 4:17pm
I think what's interesting about this proposal is that it's not really obvious what would happen.  

Would people's behavior change in any significant way?
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by JiNbOtAk on May 22nd, 2007, 11:59pm

on 05/22/07 at 13:46:06, rmsgrey wrote:
So effectively, you're talking about a forum where, rather than anyone being able to PM anyone else, you can only PM someone if they've previously said you can, and then only as many times as they've chosen to let you...

In my own experience, it's the unexpected PMs that have been the most interesting and worthwhile - in some cases from entirely new users who I wouldn't have had a chance to pre-approve...

If you want some selectivity in who can PM you, I'd be inclined to implement a blacklist rather than a (rationed) whitelist...


Agreed. Personally, if we were to have a rationed whitelist ( borrowing rmsgrey's term ), I would probably add all the regular members, with no limit, or say, unlimited credits. It kinda defeats the purpose to be able only to PM within a forum if the user allows it.

PM is different than emails; we use email for our day-to-day correspondence, PM is usually for members of a forum in which we share a common interest.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by towr on May 23rd, 2007, 1:28am

on 05/22/07 at 16:17:13, amichail wrote:
I think what's interesting about this proposal is that it's not really obvious what would happen.  
That may be interesting from a researchers point of view, but at the same time it makes it a very bad idea to implement on an actual forum.
It might be interesting to see what happens if we start a thermonuclear war, but I really rather not find out by trying.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 23rd, 2007, 5:40am

on 05/23/07 at 01:28:06, towr wrote:
It might be interesting to see what happens if we start a thermonuclear war, but I really rather not find out by trying.

There's an experiment starting in 2007 that may end up completely destroying the planet:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1357036518657151746&q=The+Six+Billion+Dollar+Experiment
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by SMQ on May 23rd, 2007, 5:57am

on 05/23/07 at 05:40:44, amichail wrote:
An experiment that will start in 2007 may end up completely destroying the planet:

Or the Vogons might demolish the planet to make way for a hyperspace bypass.  The two are in the same realm of fantasy -- and about equally likely. ;)

The energy densities in collisions in the LHC will be the highest created on the planet, true, but the same sort of sensationalist possibilities were circulating before the startup of the Tevatron at Fermilab and the RHIC at Brookhaven, and, surprise, surprise, nothing happened.  More importantly, many natural phenomenon in the universe are multiple orders of magnitude stronger yet.  If high energy densities could create small, stable black holes the universe would be positively swarming with them.  It's not.  They can't.

Is that a 100% guarantee?  No, of course not.  But I can't 100% guarantee than quantum tunneling won't cause all the molecules of your undergarments to jump simultaneously a foot to the left, either.

--SMQ
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by Grimbal on May 23rd, 2007, 7:11am
At the time of the 1st atom bomb, people were worrying that a chain reaction could ignite all the hydrogen of the atmosphere.

I think people tend to overestimate their own importance on this planet.

PS: oops.... we are hijacking this thread...
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 23rd, 2007, 7:18am
I'm certain that my proposal will not destroy the planet!

It might upset some people and destroy (potential) friendships, but that's about it.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by Grimbal on May 23rd, 2007, 8:31am
As JiNbOtAk, I don't think I would give a limited number of credits to any poster.  I would either block all mail from someone I don't like or allow all mail for someone I want to hear about.

I don't know what to think of someone who tells me: "I like what you write.  You can send me 2 mails, but not more.".  Either I don't know the guy and probably won't bother, or I know the guy and I could probably get his e-mail address.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by amichail on May 23rd, 2007, 9:04am
Another possibility is to give people priorities so that you would see higher priority messages first.

You can use this information as feedback on your contributions.  Namely, you will be able to see how many people are receiving your messages and at what priorities.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by Three Hands on May 24th, 2007, 7:32am
I think the idea of being able to prioritise individuals might work better, (although on the boards I frequent I generally don't get enough PM traffic to make prioritisation worthwhile), since it doesn't affect the possibility of receiving messages that you may be interested in from someone you don't know.

That said, I'm not sure if I'd go for the feedback possibility, since I reckon that will lead to an unnecessary increase in ego-bruising and clique-iness (Why am I so low on your priorities? Don't you want to be my friend?!) Combine that with general politeness to acknowledge someone's message has been read when appropriate, and the feedback information doesn't seem necessary.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by Grimbal on May 24th, 2007, 2:43pm
That was a very thoughtful post, Three Hands.  Please write more of that.  If you want to mail me directly, be my guest.

Uh... just joking.  ;)

What could be interesting in prioritizing other contributions is if you don't actually rank people each against all others, but rather you create sugroups of people who like each other's contributions.  To the user it looks like only the interesting stuff remains, while actually you just add an invisible wall between the user and the "uninteresting stuff".

The downside is that if one person you like speaks to someone you don't, there would be situations where you would see only half of a discussion.
Title: Re: A discussion forum / email hybrid
Post by JiNbOtAk on May 24th, 2007, 6:49pm
Uh..sorta like a mini forum within a forum ?


Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.4!
Forum software copyright © 2000-2004 Yet another Bulletin Board