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        riddles >> general problem-solving / chatting / whatever >> Exporting users' data in a note taking service
        
(Message started by: amichail on Apr 24th, 2007, 10:05am)
Title: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by amichail on Apr 24th, 2007, 10:05am
I would like to add an export feature to Study Stickies:

http://studystickies.com

It's unlikely that many people would use this service much if there's a chance they could lose their data. So an export feature is critical.

I was thinking of HTML since the stickies can have HTML tags in them. However, I recently added a math mode that uses TeX syntax. So stickies can be a mixture of HTML and TeX.

Any suggestions on a good export format?

Note that users may specify some of their stickies to be private.  Moreover, it would be desirable to have an export format that the user can easily edit and perhaps even import into some other app/service.
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by towr on Apr 24th, 2007, 10:51am
You could consider XML (which also means you can mostly leave the html as it is).
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by amichail on Apr 24th, 2007, 11:03am

on 04/24/07 at 10:51:29, towr wrote:
You could consider XML (which also means you can mostly leave the html as it is).

I was thinking of exporting a zip file containing one html file along with the pngs for all the formulas.

In the html file, math would be exported like this:

<img src="...png" alt="$\frac{1}{n}$" ... >

Such a file can also be imported with a few heuristics.

But unfortunately, editing math with the exported file is messy.
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by SMQ on Apr 24th, 2007, 11:17am
A side note: I noticed from the flash demo that you're using the 10-digit ISBN (ISBN-10) to identify books.  Are you aware that as of January 1, 2007 all publishers have been required (http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/transition.asp) to use ISBN-13 on all new or reprinted books?

For the moment, the two formats are very similar and can coexist: ISBN-13 is just ISBN-10 with a 978 prefix and a different last digit (check digit) (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ISBN.html).  In the next few years, however, the last of the available ISBN-10 numbers will be used up, and new books will begin to be published with an ISBN-13 exclusively.  You might want to be prepared for that ahead of time.

(My ex-GF works for a minor U.S. publisher and I helped them through their ISBN conversion...)

--SMQ
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by amichail on Apr 24th, 2007, 11:32am

on 04/24/07 at 11:17:30, SMQ wrote:
A side note: I noticed from the flash demo that you're using the 10-digit ISBN (ISBN-10) to identify books.  Are you aware that as of January 1, 2007 all publishers have been required (http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/transition.asp) to use ISBN-13 on all new or reprinted books?

For the moment, the two formats are very similar and can coexist: ISBN-13 is just ISBN-10 with a 978 prefix and a different last digit (check digit) (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ISBN.html).  In the next few years, however, the last of the available ISBN-10 numbers will be used up, and new books will begin to be published with an ISBN-13 exclusively.  You might want to be prepared for that ahead of time.

(My ex-GF works for a minor U.S. publisher and I helped them through their ISBN conversion...)

--SMQ


I should change it then to use ISBN-13 throughout and automatically convert ISBN-10 numbers to ISBN-13.
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by towr on Apr 24th, 2007, 12:09pm
You could also try to think of something for different versions of the same book (like hardcover/paperback). The page numbering would be different, but it'd still be nice if you could find the notes even if you have a different version. (If the text hasn't changed, you could try renormalizing the pagenumbers to the other range; with updated versions of a text it'd be more difficult)

Anyway, as for editing equations, you might consider making an editor for exported files.
I suppose it might be usefull to be able to browse such notes on for example a PDA or something as well; you could even use them in class.
Although, I suppose you're concentrating more on the web-application side of things.
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by amichail on Apr 24th, 2007, 12:19pm

on 04/24/07 at 12:09:25, towr wrote:
Anyway, as for editing equations, you might consider making an editor for exported files.
I suppose it might be usefull to be able to browse such notes on for example a PDA or something as well; you could even use them in class.
Although, I suppose you're concentrating more on the web-application side of things.

In class, students could use wireless to access the service via the web.  

There are two issues here with respect to exporting.  First, people probably won't trust me to keep their data safe and so exporting is important.  Second, people may not always have access to the web and so exporting would be useful in that case as well.

But then there's the issue of exporting vs an offline version of the app.  
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by towr on Apr 24th, 2007, 12:34pm

on 04/24/07 at 12:19:11, amichail wrote:
In class, students could use wireless to access the service via the web.
If their building has wireless, which isn't a given.  (And dialing in via the mobile phone network would be rather expensive)


Quote:
But then there's the issue of exporting vs an offline version of the app.
I'm not sure how there's an issue of one vs the other. An export format would be needed to exchange data between the online 'marketplace' and the offline app.

Something else that just came to mind: I noticed you can link to othe rpeople's notes to add them among your own. But what if they start editing their notes (possibly in something you don't appreciate as much as the earlier version)? Will it just get replaced, or do you keep the version you linked (possibly with a notification that the author updated it)?
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by amichail on Apr 24th, 2007, 12:42pm

on 04/24/07 at 12:34:01, towr wrote:
I'm not sure how there's an issue of one vs the other. An export format would be needed to exchange data between the online 'marketplace' and the offline app.

Something else that just came to mind: I noticed you can link to othe rpeople's notes to add them among your own. But what if they start editing their notes (possibly in something you don't appreciate as much as the earlier version)? Will it just get replaced, or do you keep the version you linked (possibly with a notification that the author updated it)?

Having an offline version with bidirectional data exchange with the online one is much more implementation effort than just exporting data.

Also, offline ajax apps are not easy at the moment. I believe firefox 3 may change that though.

As for the link, you will see only the most recent version. Maybe I should keep previous versions as well just in case you don't like the most recent version.

BTW, linking can be extended to handle the case of paperback vs hardcover as well as multiple editions of a book.

For example, when linking to someone's sticky, perhaps it would be a good idea to allow the user to specify a different page and/or isbn.
Title: Re: Exporting users' data in a note taking service
Post by SMQ on Apr 24th, 2007, 12:51pm

on 04/24/07 at 11:32:51, amichail wrote:
I should change it then to use ISBN-13 throughout and automatically convert ISBN-10 numbers to ISBN-13.

That would be my recommendation, yes.  Also, if you're already going to have code sitting around to calculate ISBN check digits you could validate the entered ISBNs as well.

--SMQ


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