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        riddles >> general problem-solving / chatting / whatever >> What is "Maths"?
        
(Message started by: Noke Lieu on Feb 2nd, 2005, 9:29pm)
Title: What is "Maths"?
Post by Noke Lieu on Feb 2nd, 2005, 9:29pm
Its a silly question, shameless designed to draw you attention. Sorry.   ::)
Yet there is an emlement of truth to the question.(as in: I am sort of genuinely asking)


It's just that it crops up in converestion at parties and the like, I thought that we might like to share/correct some of our sharp/smart answers.
My favourites include:

Maths isn't about numbers. Otherwise, I could just say 5 or 392 123.5 and that would  be maths. But it's not- they're just numbers, just words, until you do something with them. Then that's when the Maths starts...

Maths isn't about sitting around and adding up numbers- that's called accountancy.

What we learn at school isn't really maths- its more about the language that we use to describe maths.

Even if there had been no humans to create this language to describe the maths, the maths would still exist. One plus one would still equal two. Just because there aren't people around to say it, it doesn't make it any less true.
(oooh, lots of -it- in that sentence)

We first discover the relationship, and then invent a way of describing it. That's what maths is about.
(this leads me down a scary path... are ideas invented or discovered?)
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by towr on Feb 3rd, 2005, 12:30am
Math is a magical maze :P
(guess which book I'm reading)
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by THUDandBLUNDER on Feb 3rd, 2005, 1:09am
The usual cop-out answer is 'Mathematics is what mathematicians do.'
You could say that they search for order and simplicity (patterns, relationships, etc) amid apparent complexity.


Quote:
(guess which book I'm reading)

The Magical Maze (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471350656/themathematiassoA/103-3297659-6983041) by Ian Stewart.   :P
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by rmsgrey on Feb 3rd, 2005, 8:58am

on 02/03/05 at 00:30:10, towr wrote:
Math is a magical maze :P
(guess which book I'm reading)

"For mathematics is a maze, a maze in your head - a maze of ideas, a maze of logic. And that maze in your mind is a powerful tool for understanding an even bigger maze - the maze of cause and effect that we call 'the universe'. That is its special kind of magic. Real magic, strange magic, infinitely fascinating magic." - from the front flap of the dust jacket.

I got my copy as a school prize for Maths (my choice of any book up to a certain price, subject to approval).

As for the whole discovering/creating part, I think the truth lies somewhere between - mathematicians in generalpick a set of axioms and add in various definitions - the choices there create a landscape, but much of the interest in maths lies in exploring that landscape - discovering what shape our creation has. And, of course, the practical use of mathematics comes from choosing ideas to reflect aspects of the real world, and from seeing relationships between the realworld and our discoveries.
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by Sir Col on Feb 3rd, 2005, 9:47am
The origin of the word, mathematics, is the Greek word mathema, which means science or learning, which in turn comes from manthanein, meaning, to learn.

I am not utilitarian by any means, but without application, mathematics is meaningless; it is not the king, but the servant of the sciences. Do not misunderstand me: I am one who enjoys mathematics on an abstract level, but no journey into the fascinating world of mathematics would have begun without a need. Therefore it owes its very existence to the universe in which we live. I believe that mathematics provides a language to articulate and make some sense of the world around us; it is built on solid (consistent) foundations; and it appeals to the human spirit.

In regard to the latter, I cannot imagine anyone who has truly glimpsed the wonder of mathematics to remain unmoved or indifferent to pursuing it for the remainder of their days.
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by THUDandBLUNDER on Feb 3rd, 2005, 11:05am

Quote:
...but without application, mathematics is meaningless;

I doubt if many mathematicians would agree with that.

Certainly not G.H. Hardy:
"I am interested in mathematics only as a creative art."
A Mathematician's Apology (London 1941).

Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by Icarus on Feb 3rd, 2005, 5:01pm
Hardy is also known to have bragged that he had never done anything useful in mathematics. But the joke is on him, as everything he published has since found application.

Mathematics is the study of similarity, and this why it finds usefulness in so many fields. The mathematician (in the loosest sense of that word) looks at disparate things and asks "what do they have in common?"

One thing you can do in comparing collections of objects is to pair them up, one from each collection. It is discovered that regardless of how you pair them, the result is the same (for finite collections, anyway - but then you don't get to play in the infinite playground until you've already developed mathematics to a significant extent). If after pairing, one collection has items left over, then pairing up the items in a different way will still leave items left over from that same collection. Conversely, if for one pairing, both collections have no items left, then for any pairing of these two collections, you have no items left from either. This discovery was the beginning of mathematics. A sheepherder would gather pebbles, and put a pebble into a pouch for each sheep in the herd. If at any time he wanted to make sure that he had all of his sheep, he would pull out a pebble for each sheep, and if any pebbles were left over, he knew he had lost a sheep. Eventually, someone had the bright idea of associating collection equivalences with words, and the concept of "number" was born.

Adding and multiplying, subracting and dividing, come from examing similarities resulting from combining collections. From these basic building blocks, great edifices are constructed, but it all comes back to collections of objects, or concepts. Similarities in shapes leads to geometry. Similarities in form to topology. Analytic geometry, and ultimately calculus, came from similarities between the path of a fly on a ceiling and curves drawn on paper.

Only a mathematician can compare pebbles to sheep and call them the same, for to do this is to be a mathematician.
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by Noke Lieu on Feb 3rd, 2005, 5:46pm
No wonder my job exists, guys. :P
Where's the wit, the sparkle, the cut and thrust we usually display?
If you had thirty seconds with which to intrigue people about maths, what would you say?
(hey- this is 500th post. time flies when having fun!)
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by JocK on Feb 4th, 2005, 1:14pm

on 02/02/05 at 21:29:49, Noke Lieu wrote:
What we learn at school isn't really maths- its more about the language that we use to describe maths.

Even if there had been no humans to create this language to describe the maths, the maths would still exist.


One might claim maths is a language:

mathematics is

  • the language of physics/science
  • the language of the universe
  • the language of reason
  • the language of logic
  • the language to describe quantity, shape and arrangement
...

Other 'definitions' :

  • maths is poetry for the mind
  • maths is the key to decode the universe



on 02/03/05 at 17:46:14, Noke Lieu wrote:
If you had thirty seconds with which to intrigue people about maths, what would you say?


Well, you just tell them: "Math is like sex"  ::)
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by towr on Feb 12th, 2005, 1:00pm
Maths is the 'magic beyond magic'
(Shouldn't be too hard to guess who's pun that was, I think.)
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by Noke Lieu on Feb 13th, 2005, 9:44pm
towr, does that count as a pun?  hmmn. Notlob.... maybe I just don't get it.


on 02/04/05 at 13:14:22, JocK wrote:



Well, you just tell them: "Math is like sex"  ::)


Being truly a master of quick wit... (sorry- didn't read this earlier)

...because the harder it is, the better it is?
...because not everyone gets it?
...beacuse it can be sweaty work?
...because I can only do the basic stuff with my fingers?
...because after dividing you can leave a remainder?
...because it can get you into, and out of, tight spots?

okay, best get back to work now... ::)
Title: Re: What is "Maths"?
Post by towr on Feb 14th, 2005, 12:09am

on 02/13/05 at 21:44:15, Noke Lieu wrote:
towr, does that count as a pun?  hmmn. Notlob.... maybe I just don't get it.
After I read it it took me a night's sleep before it hit me. ::[hide]'magic beyond magic' =  meta-magic(s) ~= mathematic(s)[/hide]::
I'd say that counts as a pun..


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