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        riddles >> general problem-solving / chatting / whatever >> We Are What We Eat
        
(Message started by: william wu on Feb 25^th, 2004, 10:06am)

Title: We Are What We Eat
Post by william wu on Feb 25^th, 2004, 10:06am

I was just thinking, it's kind of profound that we are what we eat. We really are what we eat! So I'm wondering, to what extremes can changing our diet affect who we are, aside from mere slimness/obesity? For instance, could we design a diet to optimize how smart we are? And what exactly is the relationship between diet and how you look and think, if any? People in different cultures look differently and think differently. Respectively, this has much to do with climate differences and long traditions of cultural differences, but could food have played a larger role than expected? And has there been any research on this sort of thing?

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 25^th, 2004, 10:33am

There is some research on it, though I can't recount much of it..
Of course diet is really just a part of what makes us how we are, there's also a genetic component, and a cultural one (besides food), how much we excersize etc..

Alsom it's not just that you are what you eat, you also smell like what you eat, and if you get real intimate taste like what you eat as well ;)
Babies seem to really enjoy mothers milk if mommie drinks a few beers a day..

Ok, so you want to optimize your 'smarts'. Creatine seems to have some good properties (though long term effect isn't in yet). Creatine can be found in meat among other things. Side effect, you'll smell bad (of course if everybody smells bad, it's not that bad).
Fish oils are also good for the brain, so eat lots of fatty fish. So now you smell of creatine metabolites and fish.. For extra health, let's add some garlic. And around this point probably nobody wants to be within a mile of you, so nobody will contest your intelligenc anyway ;)

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 25^th, 2004, 11:28am

The issue is not so much you are what you eat, but your body takes what you eat and transforms it into something useful. As towr said, your brain needs certain nutrients to function properly and to grow. Certain vitamins are critical to brain development, even as an adult. Eating beef does not make you a cow, but the protein (along with strength training) will make you more buff :-)

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 25^th, 2004, 12:45pm

You consist of the atoms you consume, so you are what you eat in that sense..
In another sense it's true when you're a canibal..

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by Speaker on Feb 25^th, 2004, 4:44pm

To become smart, you should eat fish oils as mentioned. In Japan, people recommend you eat DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). This is said to be the specific component of fish oil that makes you smart. It is most abundent in fish eyes, so go ahead and pop those little babies into your mouth and chew'em up. But, be careful of the hard little ball (lens) in their center.

But, you can also buy all kinds of cookies and crackers and other food that are supposed to be packed with DHA.

People also used to think that walnuts made you smart. This was because they are shaped like brains. There is a cool term for this way of thinking (that if something has the shape of something it also carries the same properties). But, I cannot remember it.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 26^th, 2004, 8:57am

I take salmon oil supplements, two gel tablets per day. Just be careful to take it about 15-30 minutes before eating, or you will burp salmon for a few hours. Anyway, this has DHA and some other nutrient that is good. I am at work, the bottle is at home, or I would check.

Many people believe that we all need to take dietary supplements because our diets cannot give us all the nutrients we need.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by rmsgrey on Feb 26^th, 2004, 9:07am

on 02/26/04 at 08:57:18, John_Gaughan wrote:

Many people believe that we all need to take dietary supplements because our diets cannot give us all the nutrients we need.

Which, of course, explains why we went extinct several hundred thousand years ago?

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I can't help wondering how many reports of supplements being necessary come form those affiliated with the providers of the recommended supplements. Certainly, people can survive on quite surprising diets (though the 100% McDonalds probably isn't a good one to try) and eating a wide variety of foods is liable to get you most things you need.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 26^th, 2004, 10:50am

most of us certainly don't need supplements. As said, we've survived for hundreds of thousands of years without them.
But they can still help improve our health/life. But so could a better diet without extra supplements.. And more excersize (also good for the brain btw).

Another supplementary group that shouldn't be left out is anti-oxidants, they keep your body and brain from rusting, so to speak.. (vitamin C is an important one, but there are more).
Also a little bit of alcohol each day seems to be good for the arteries (and thus also the brain, since it has many arteries).

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by Sir Col on Feb 26^th, 2004, 11:03am

My theory is that if we start taking supplements regularly, then our bodies become less efficient at extracting the essential nutrients by natural digestive processes; after sustained use, our bodies may completely lose the ability.

Of course, there is no real science behind it, but I have massive respect for my body and the fact that it is an incomprehensibly amazing piece of engineering. As a result, I feed it a balanced diet and enjoy the benefits in the things that it allows me to do. ;)

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 26^th, 2004, 11:12am

on 02/26/04 at 09:07:24, rmsgrey wrote:

With today's mass-produced foods, natural nutrients are harder to come by. For example, farmed salmon, and even most fresh salmon that is sold in the country, is very short on the fatty acids that is the entire reason some people eat it. Our diets tend to be full of refined flour and sugar that is devoid of nutrients, and our ancestors never ate it in the quantities we do. Most people do not consume enough vegetables, either, which is where we get most of our nutrients from. Meat is a good source of proteins and amino acids, but again, mass-produced animals tend to be lower in nutrients and overall quantity. This is why free-range chickens and grass-fed beef are starting to become more popular.

We have the potential to gain the nutrients we need from our diets, however, most Americans (I cannot speak for other countries on this one) do not eat a diet full of essential nutrients. When vegetables take days or weeks to hit store shelves, when cattle is fed ground up cattle (think BSE, among other things), nutrition is not as easy as our ancestors killing a deer or picking fruits and vegetables and eating them the same day.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 26^th, 2004, 11:30am

on 02/26/04 at 11:12:40, John_Gaughan wrote:

For example, farmed salmon, and even most fresh salmon that is sold in the country, is very short on the fatty acids that is the entire reason some people eat it.

That not very surprising, as Salmon isn't at all a fatty fish. If you want fatty acids you'd do better to eat herring, or a similar fatty fish..
It's like expecting beef from a sheep..

Quote:

most Americans (I cannot speak for other countries on this one) do not eat a diet full of essential nutrients.

That would mean they're dead.. wouldn't it? They must get some at least. Perhaps not the optimal amount, but certainly the minimum necessary for sustaining life..

Quote:

nutrition is not as easy as our ancestors killing a deer or picking fruits and vegetables and eating them the same day.

I wouldn't start idealizing the past.. They had long winters without any fresh food for months..
And no refridgerator.. Heck, they ate rotting food, because they couldn't afford to waste it..

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 26^th, 2004, 11:52am

on 02/26/04 at 11:30:59, towr wrote:

That would mean they're dead.. wouldn't it? They must get some at least. Perhaps not the optimal amount, but certainly the minimum necessary for sustaining life..

Humans do not die from bad nutrition, they become malnourished, sick, etc.

Quote:

I wouldn't start idealizing the past.. They had long winters without any fresh food for months..
And no refridgerator.. Heck, they ate rotting food, because they couldn't afford to waste it..

I am not idealizing, I guess the point I made rather poorly is that for tens of thousands of years our species evolved around what we ate. Different species require different nutrients (ever see a cat eat vegetables?), and this changes over time. The last century saw a massive shift in human diets, and evolution takes a lot longer to catch up.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 26^th, 2004, 11:54am

on 02/26/04 at 11:30:59, towr wrote:

That not very surprising, as Salmon isn't at all a fatty fish. If you want fatty acids you'd do better to eat herring, or a similar fatty fish.

Salmon is supposed to be very rich in the Omega-3 fatty acids. Maybe it does not have all of the fatty acids but it is a good source.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 26^th, 2004, 12:04pm

on 02/26/04 at 11:52:59, John_Gaughan wrote:

Humans do not die from bad nutrition, they become malnourished, sick, etc.

If they don't get essential nutrients they die from lack of them eventually. That's what essential means..

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 26^th, 2004, 12:20pm

Quote:

I guess the point I made rather poorly is that for tens of thousands of years our species evolved around what we ate.

And what we choose to eat is also based on what our genes tell us we need.
Quote:

Different species require different nutrients (ever see a cat eat vegetables?),

A vegetable isn't a nutrient. Cats pretty much need the same nutrients we do, but they can't get them from plants due to their digestive system. Naturally every nutrient a body need can also be found in another body, so eating meat works fine.
Of course there is a difference in how many of any kind of nutrient a species needs, but it's basicly allways the same building blocks..
Quote:

The last century saw a massive shift in human diets, and evolution takes a lot longer to catch up.

Over the last century our diet mostly improved, we got healthier, stronger, taller, live longer, women get fertile at a younger age, etc. We have access to fresh food and vegetables every day of the year. Pretty much everyone also has sufficient funds to buy them. Our diet show a much greater variety these days (more than porridge/bread&soup every day and every meal which preceded it for a few hundred years). Things were much wors a few hundred years ago..

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by Icarus on Feb 26^th, 2004, 4:58pm

I have to echo that. For all the problems with the modern diet, it supplies a steady stream of nurishment. Until recent times, this was impossible, and everyone not living in climates that remain warm and hospitable to growth all year round went through regular periods of very poor nutrition. Lean years and even famine were a regular part of life. The concept of having fresh fruit to eat all year round was not even dreamed of. Most fruit was available fresh for only a couple months, and even dried fruit did not last until the next growing season.

Simple evidence shows the superiority of the modern diet: we grow larger (not just horizontally, but also vertically), and live far longer than our ancestors. While a good part of this is due to better health maintenance, the largest portion is due to improved nutrition.

This is not to say that our diet is good. Only that it is much improved, not worsened, from that of our ancestors. Of course, their dietary problems were from necessity. Ours are from bad choices.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 26^th, 2004, 8:46pm

While this may not be nutrition, it is closely related: why do we have such a problem with obesity and generally being overweight?

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 27^th, 2004, 12:50am

on 02/26/04 at 20:46:31, John_Gaughan wrote:

While this may not be nutrition, it is closely related: why do we have such a problem with obesity and generally being overweight?

People eat too much..
There is also the virus and gene theory. And though you can shift some of the blame to that, you cannot simply gain weight on air.
I suppose it may be a bit easy for me to just call it lack of self control, since I don't have the problem, nor had to try and solve it. But that does seem to be the problem too me. Food these days generally tastes good, and people don't stop eating it when they should. If food tasted like crap they'd probably stop eating so much of it.
Of course it doesn't help that we're genetically predisposed to liking fatty and sugary foods. And it has been shown that people actually eat more of a food when there are fats and oils added to it.
Another large chance from long ago is that we work less hard physically. It wasn't long ago people ate a plate of pigs fat with bread each morning around these parts. But they worked damned hard on the field. They needed the calories and used them. Rather then just crave them and store them for a cold winters day that never comes due to central heating.
Maybe it would help if computers only worked while we were paddling on an excersize bike (you could get some 100-300 watts from that, should be enough to at least power a monitor, without which the computer is effectively useless)

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 27^th, 2004, 8:03pm

on 02/27/04 at 00:50:14, towr wrote:

Maybe it would help if computers only worked while we were paddling on an excersize bike (you could get some 100-300 watts from that, should be enough to at least power a monitor, without which the computer is effectively useless)

I like that idea. Of course, it should be optional, but human-powered appliances are a good idea for some people. Some countries use human-powered transportation, for example, India and China where they use bicycles almost exclusively in some areas. They even have human-powered taxis.

This idea would not catch on in the U.S., since our culture is centered around making life more convenient, not healthier or more difficult. If it caught on at all, it would be with a few extreme, fringe groups.

Of course, I think the culture in this country (U.S.) is to blame for issues with obesity, diabetes, malnutrition, etc.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 27^th, 2004, 8:12pm

I thought more about my comments on nutrition as compared to our species' history. I feel that today we understand nutrition better, and a portion of our population is far better off than it used to be, but I think most people are deficient in at least some nutrients.

Part of the advances come from being able to identify specific vitamins and minerals and their effects on the human body. Part of the advances come from extensive human research. Back in the day, nobody cared. People ate until they were not hungry. Now, we understand that our bodies need specific things to survive, and we need a little bit of everything in moderation.

I keep tabs on my diet. I know I am deficient in certain vitamins, so I take supplements. For example, I get zero fatty acids from my diet, so I take pills to supply what I need. I take a multivitamin because I simply do not eat enough quantity of food to get everything I need. I take calcium tablets because I do not drink milk and my dairy consumption is extremely low, basically, an occasional slice of cheese.

Anyway, everybody is different. I do what works for me.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Feb 28^th, 2004, 3:40am

on 02/27/04 at 20:12:08, John_Gaughan wrote:

For example, I get zero fatty acids from my diet,

That's highly doubtfull. Fat/oil get's converted in the body into fatty acids and glycerol. And almost everything contains fats and/or oils these days.
Whether you're getting the right kinds of fatty acids (certain kinds of unsaturated ones) is another matter.

I think that if you eat a varied diet you're body can probably tell you which nutrients you need by having you crave certain foods which contain those nutrients.
If you're diet is less varied, like mine is, you may just end up not liking it anymore, and just crave something else, anything else, at least not the same thing again.. I usually eat the same things week in week out, but eventually I'll get fed up with the taste of it, and start eating another set of foods week in week out :P

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by Speaker on Feb 29^th, 2004, 5:52pm

towr, I think what you say about craving some kind of food because you lack the nutrients that food provides is correct. I remember reading about a study done on small children. They were given a selection of many different kinds of food on a tray from which they could choose anything they wanted. And, over time the children selected a balanced diet. Meaning they did not eat a balanced meal everyday, but there diet over a long period of time contained all (enough) of the nutrients to be healthy.

I think the study was done in the US in an orphanage about 100 years ago.

This would seem to mean that our bodies on the cellular level (lacking vitamin C) can tell our brains to do something (like eat an apple). So, how does that process work. Lack of vitamin C stimulates memory cortex to find smell and flavor of food that contained high amounts of vitamin C.

Or, can our noses detect vitamin C in the smell of something. This would be necessary if a small child had never tasted a food with vitamin K, but needed more vitamin K.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Feb 29^th, 2004, 9:08pm

I think this comes from experience. For example, some things like salt are fairly obvious, but vitamins do not have a taste (at least not in the ratios they are present in food). I think over time our bodies realize "I just ate an orange and got a ton of vitamin C." or "I just drank a glass of milk and got a ton of calcium." So when our bodies detect that our bones are running low on calcium, we crave milk, for example.

This does not explain my wife's constant craving for chocolate, ice cream, and mountain dew, however.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Mar 1^st, 2004, 12:12am

chocolate and mountain dew are highly addictive due to among other things cafeine.. So your body craves them perpetually, else withdrawl symptoms can occur..
Ice-cream would probably be an emotional addiction, it's 'comfort food'. I suppose that's also an important factor in weight problems. A lot of people eat more when they get depressed, and then they gain weight and get more depressed about that..

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Mar 5^th, 2004, 3:08am

Dairy, moderate fat, carbohydrate intakes reduce obesity in young teens (http://www.scienceblog.com/community/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2406)

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Mar 5^th, 2004, 6:44am

on 03/05/04 at 03:08:56, towr wrote:

Dairy, moderate fat, carbohydrate intakes reduce obesity in young teens (http://www.scienceblog.com/community/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2406)

That article did not mentioned the word "exercise" at all. Exercise is the other side of the weight loss issue. They do have a good point about fast food, though. The nutritional content of most fast food is abyssimally low.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Mar 6^th, 2004, 9:24am

Of course it didn't mention excersize, that wasn't what the article was about.. It didn't mention genetic disposition either, or society, or tv-ads. There are some articles on that somewhere though, I think..

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by Speaker on Mar 8^th, 2004, 12:55am

Speaking of the you are what you eat theory. When I was a kid, I heard that your body is completely replaced every sevenyears. That is, all the cells in your body that were there seven years ago, are no longer there. So, you become a new man (being) every seven years. So, if you eat only carrots for seven years you will turn into a carrot. (You will turn orange anyway.) ;D

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Mar 8^th, 2004, 1:48am

That's only partly true. Not all cells are replaced, nerve cells among others can't well be replaced so they have to last a life time. But mass-wise it's about right.. An average person looses about 4 kg a year on dead skin cells alone.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by rmsgrey on Mar 8^th, 2004, 5:05am

Besides, while the actual nerve cells may not be replaced over time, the individual particles (atoms and subatomic particles) can wander off...

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Mar 8^th, 2004, 10:01pm

on 03/08/04 at 01:48:07, towr wrote:

I am not a biologist or MD but I remember reading that this is not true. Nerve cells, to include the ones in the brain, do die, and are replaced. It just takes longer than "normal" cells.

I grew up hearing that our brains stopped growing/developing at about age 10-12. After that, if a brain cell died, it was dead forever. Now it seems that is not the accepted theory... damnit, I wish MDs could figure out how our brains work.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by Speaker on Mar 8^th, 2004, 10:10pm

They say that when a brain cell dies, it tends to increase the overall strength of the entire brain. It is similar to the weakest member of the heard being left behind improving the survival characteristics of the herd as a whole. This theory has been used to support the idea that beer makes you smart, which had been accepted as common knowledge in most societies, but is validified through this recent study.

Give me another beer, I'm evolving :o

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by John_Gaughan on Mar 8^th, 2004, 10:40pm

Beer is too weak, give me whiskey. I need to evolve faster :o

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by towr on Mar 9^th, 2004, 2:17am

on 03/08/04 at 22:01:47, John_Gaughan wrote:

I am not a biologist or MD but I remember reading that this is not true. Nerve cells, to include the ones in the brain, do die, and are replaced. It just takes longer than "normal" cells.

I'm not saying none die, and none are replaced. But most don't. An average brain cells has connections with one to ten thousand others. This makes it extremely difficult to replace. Loosing a few connections or brain cells doesn't matter much, as the brain is a distributed network. But you run in to problems if you want to replace a significant amount.
When a part of the brain is destroyed (in a stroke or accident) new brain cells can often only regain some of the functionality. And the younger you are the better, since the brain as a whole can then better learn to adapt. (Though I suppose getting a stroke at a young age isn't a good sign)

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by khuram4u on Dec 25^th, 2011, 2:17am

fast foods and energy drinks are not good for health if used frequently. never taken them on empty stomach. They don't have fiber and protein. always take a good amount of fiber and protein daily. 3 apples eat daily and 8 glasses of water. this will help reduce obesity.

i reduced my obesity by using this formula and drinking green tea daily.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by aurther on Jan 14^th, 2012, 1:46am

What we eat will certainly always define who we are. we are becoming obese and overweight weight because in the last 40 years we have doubled our portions apart from reducing the fruits and vegetables that we eat replacing them with highly processed foods. The closer we get back to the original that we are supposed to eat, the longer we will live. But again other factors such as climate changes if you see it that way also affect overall how long we last.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by RichardL on Aug 3^rd, 2012, 5:07am

Its true for some people, but if you do exercises daily it helps you to be in shape and healthy.

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by fajar on Aug 29^th, 2013, 11:23pm

very interesting, is it the similar with "we are what we think" ?

Title: Re: We Are What We Eat
Post by alien2 on Sep 7^th, 2013, 8:27am

on 02/25/04 at 10:06:21, william wu wrote:

I was just thinking, it's kind of profound that we are what we eat. We really are what we eat!

Are you calling me a pig!? I like pork. :P