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        riddles >> easy >> The astronaut and the alien
        
(Message started by: chipbuddy on May 28th, 2009, 12:08pm)
Title: The astronaut and the alien
Post by chipbuddy on May 28th, 2009, 12:08pm
A human astronaut and a humanoid alien are having a conversation. The astronaut says "I have 4 limbs." The alien says "I don't understand this word '4.' You obviously have 10 limbs."

How many fingers are on the alien's right hand?
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by rmsgrey on May 28th, 2009, 12:55pm
I asked my computer this question, and it answered "10"
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by towr on May 28th, 2009, 1:29pm

on 05/28/09 at 12:08:59, chipbuddy wrote:
How many fingers are on the alien's right hand?
Hands? Are you sure it doesn't have tentacles for arms? Must be a different alien than the one I met. ;)

The Babylonians used to count in a base 60 system; human anatomy sure has changed a lot in six thousand or so years. Of course in the middle ages many people still worked with a base 12 system (we still have dozens and grosses), so that's in line with the decrease in fingers. Maybe that humanoid alien was actual a human time-traveler from the future ::)
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by Grimbal on May 28th, 2009, 2:16pm
One finger on the right hand, one on the left hand, one on the front hand and one one the back hand.

For example.

Or they don't count on fingers  ::).
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by R on May 28th, 2009, 11:25pm
The Alien doesn't recognize the word "4".. so may be they use one of the binary/ternary/quad-nary number system. As all other number system will use the digit "4".
Alien said 10 limbs, which seems like a number of binary system. May be he meant 2(in decimal).
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by rmsgrey on May 30th, 2009, 9:50am

on 05/28/09 at 23:25:59, R wrote:
The Alien doesn't recognize the word "4".. so may be they use one of the binary/ternary/quad-nary number system. As all other number system will use the digit "4".
Alien said 10 limbs, which seems like a number of binary system. May be he meant 2(in decimal).

'1''0' is a number in most positional number systems (unary being an exception)

There are also other systems that don't use '4' as a symbol - roman numerals are perhaps the best known among anglophones.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by 0.999... on May 30th, 2009, 1:21pm
Tragically, the alien lost a finger due to the landing of the spaceship. 3 fingers? or did the alien change base to account for this happening?
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by Grimbal on Jun 2nd, 2009, 12:25am
In alien language, "IO" means four.

If the alien comes from a 60's Hollywood movie, he probably looks very human except for the funny pajamas and the antennas on the head.
He definitely has 5 fingers on each hand.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by towr on Jun 2nd, 2009, 12:58am

on 06/02/09 at 00:25:36, Grimbal wrote:
If the alien comes from a 60's Hollywood movie, he probably looks very human except for the funny pajamas and the antennas on the head.
He definitely has 5 fingers on each hand.
Yeah, but one or two pairs of them might be tied together, or rather, stuck together in the same finger of a custom glove.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by BenVitale on Jun 6th, 2009, 3:36pm

on 05/28/09 at 12:08:59, chipbuddy wrote:
A human astronaut and a humanoid alien are having a conversation ......


So they do speak the same language.

In many Sci-fi movies, humans encounter aliens and talk to one another in English. It's so common that most viewers do not question that. It is taken for granted.

In the Planet of the Apes, the apes spoke English. Were they on planet Earth? Not necessarily.  We are led to believe that language have gone thru relatively the same evolution as on planet earth, hence the apes spoke English.

Star Trek crew goes into deep space and encounters species that can speak English.

Why does everybody speak English?

Sorry, but I find the fact that everybody is speaking English interesting
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by towr on Jun 7th, 2009, 1:37am

on 06/06/09 at 15:36:49, BenVitale wrote:
So they do speak the same language.
But they haven't necessarily both mastered the language they speak in. I can talk to someone in German a little, doesn't mean I understand what every word means.


Quote:
In the Planet of the Apes, the apes spoke English. Were they on planet Earth?
Yes, made very clear at the end of the first movie. And also in the last (of the original movies series)


Quote:
We are led to believe that language have gone thru relatively the same evolution as on planet earth, hence the apes spoke English.
No, I don't believe so.  It wouldn't make any sense either, not that that has ever stopped holywood.  The apes took over from the humans in a bloody revolution led by Caesar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(Planet_of_the_Apes))


Quote:
Star Trek crew goes into deep space and encounters species that can speak English.

Why does everybody speak English?
Star Trek's explanation was a universal translator in every TV set. The aliens aren't speaking english, but the universal translator makes it sound like that to both the crew and us.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by rmsgrey on Jun 7th, 2009, 7:34am

on 06/07/09 at 01:37:17, towr wrote:
Star Trek's explanation was a universal translator in every TV set. The aliens aren't speaking english, but the universal translator makes it sound like that to both the crew and us.

Except for Klingons, who only speak English in subtitles...


In general, it's an acceptable trope that the dominant language of a setting is automatically presented to the reader/viewer in the dominant language of the target audience - in general, it's only visible when something goes wrong or is unexpectedly incomprehensible. Also, it saves the author from having to create an internally consistent language.

It's possible that somewhere out there is a fairly complete version of the Lord of the Rings in Westron (the fictional common tongue of Numenor) - Tolkien actually did create fictional languages - and dialects - for Middle Earth, but he's very much a special case.

There's one episode of the UK comedy drama series Coupling, a large portion of which is the same scene from two perspectives - in the first, we follow a regular character trying to chat up a woman who speaks no English (and only has a translator around for part of the time); in the second we see her side of the experience, with her dialogue in English, and what was previously English as apparent gibberish (though it may have been accurately spoken in a language I don't know) - an example of translation becoming part of the narrative.

Another example of translation being significant rather than an automatic convenience comes from C J Cherryh's Chanur series where our viewpoint species are the Hani - vaguely feline humanoids who are mentally human if culturally alien. In their interactions with Mahendo'sat and Kif (who can breathe the same air and eat the same food), translation works on a linguistic level, though there are cultural elements that don't translate. The methane-breathers, however, don't translate well at all - the Tc'a and Chi communicate in what is rendered as a square matrix of words that can be read in pretty much any direction and still come out with a valid portion of the message, and the Knnn... well, the Tc'a claim to be able to communicate with them, and someone managed to convey the idea of "trade" to them (though "negotiation" is still being worked on - their idea of trade is to take what they want and leave their proposed price behind).


Universal translation (or at least the ability for characters to be understood by each other and the audience) is something that, like the Prime Directive, is only mentioned when it's broken...
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by Grimbal on Jun 7th, 2009, 8:07am

on 05/28/09 at 12:08:59, chipbuddy wrote:
A human astronaut and a humanoid alien [...]

How many fingers are on the alien's right hand?

Humanoid means it looks like a human.  5 fingers.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by towr on Jun 7th, 2009, 10:59am

on 06/07/09 at 07:34:00, rmsgrey wrote:
There's one episode of the UK comedy drama series Coupling, a large portion of which is the same scene from two perspectives - in the first, we follow a regular character trying to chat up a woman who speaks no English (and only has a translator around for part of the time); in the second we see her side of the experience, with her dialogue in English, and what was previously English as apparent gibberish (though it may have been accurately spoken in a language I don't know) - an example of translation becoming part of the narrative.
Ah, yes, the one where Jeff mistakes the Hebrew word for boobs for the woman's name. He has such terrible luck with women.
Coupling was such a great comedy.

You can find this episode on youtube, awkwardly cut up into four pieces:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enVc7BhYCnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzgTGwLVarA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eil-VQSxYXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoMSC3396Hw

Sounds like he's speaking Italian, or maybe Spanish, in the reverses language setting.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by rmsgrey on Jun 8th, 2009, 7:39am

on 06/07/09 at 08:07:35, Grimbal wrote:
Humanoid means it looks like a human.  5 fingers.

So the Simpsons are non-humanoid?

Humanoid is a fairly fuzzy term, ranging from "wouldn't raise an eyebrow at a beauty pageant" through "wouldn't raise an eyebrow at a Halloween party" all the way to things like Kangaroos and T. Rexes, which are only humanoid in comparison to cats, squid, dolphins and hoovooloos. Having an unusual number of digits is a relatively minor variation.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by BenVitale on Jun 8th, 2009, 12:02pm
5 fingers?

I was wondering about that. And I was told that it had to do with Natural Selection.

I searched on the net and I found this document:

Why do we have five fingers on each hand instead of six? (http://www.askdog.com/2007/09/29/why-do-we-have-five-fingers-on-each-hand-instead-of-six/)

A humanoid can be a computerized version, instead of a carbon-based creature

Please read: The Humanoid Race (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.07/race.html)

It can have an overall appearance based on that of the human body in order to have interaction with made-for-human tools or environments


Robot Humanoid with Fluidic Muscles - FESTO (http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8299074891028031301&ei=wlwtSoveIKO0qAPxwNiIDw&q=Humanoid&hl=en)

Other Humanoid robots on these videos

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?hl=en&q=Humanoid&rlz=1W1GZEZ_en-GB&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=t1UtSuCYA5vGtAO8mLSnCw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#hl=en&rlz=1W1GZEZ_en-GB&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=t1UtSuCYA5vGtAO8mLSnCw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title&q=humanoid+robot&src=3
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by towr on Jun 8th, 2009, 1:07pm

on 06/08/09 at 12:02:09, BenVitale wrote:
5 fingers?

I was wondering about that. And I was told that it had to do with Natural Selection.

I searched on the net and I found this document:

Why do we have five fingers on each hand instead of six? (http://www.askdog.com/2007/09/29/why-do-we-have-five-fingers-on-each-hand-instead-of-six/)
Okay, that's just complete poppycock. I do hope you don't need me to point that out.
I think that quite possibly that writer is being sarcastic.
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by BenVitale on Jun 8th, 2009, 3:04pm
Sorry for posting a link to a sarcastic document. I should have announced it first.

My goal is twofold: to learn and to contribute positively.

Okay, on the subject of robotics, I came across an article on Science Daily website, which I find fascinating:

Robot Scientist Becomes First Machine To Discover New Scientific Knowledge (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090402143451.htm)

Prof Ross King said, "Ultimately we hope to have teams of human and robot scientists working together in laboratories."

The idea is to make science more efficient.

It can be useful in data mining ... A robot scientist that can make informed guesses work tirelessly, taking no breaks.

how should physics students take this?

what about some of the unsolved problems in mathematics?
Title: Re: The astronaut and the alien
Post by chronodekar on Jun 30th, 2009, 2:44am
This question can also be answered with the following joke,

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that know binary and those who don't!"

[hide]The alien must have only 1 finger and for that matter, only 1 hand. ... hmmm must live a sad life.[/hide] :(

-chronodekar


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