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        riddles >> easy >> Heaven and Hell
        
(Message started by: KjSlag on May 28^th, 2007, 7:05pm)

Title: Heaven and Hell
Post by KjSlag on May 28^th, 2007, 7:05pm

Because you like riddles, after you die God decides to give you a riddle to decide your fate. He puts you in a room in which there are two doors and two guards. One door leads to Heaven, and the other to Hell. One guard always tells the truth, the other always lies. God tells you that you may ask one guard one yes or no question. The guard will then answer the question (keep in mind that one of the guards will lie and you don't know which one will lie). Then you must walk though one of the doors. Your goal is obviously to walk though the door that leads to Heaven. What question will you ask in order to know for sure which door leads to Heaven?

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by JiNbOtAk on May 28^th, 2007, 10:19pm

This look reaaaaly familiar..

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Aurora on May 28^th, 2007, 11:52pm

Here's the earlier thread on this topic:

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_easy;action=display;num=1166653169;start=24#24

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Icarus on Jun 3^rd, 2007, 3:22pm

Of course, in that thread, the puzzler made the mistake of tying the guards to particular doors, so it was sufficient to simply find out which told the truth and which told lies. This puzzle is harder for being better stated. Here, knowing which guard is telling the truth and which is lying is useless. It is the door that you need to identify.

(However, there are other threads where the problem was properly stated.)

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Bishamon on Jun 8^th, 2007, 2:27am

Ask the first guard if he is the guard.

If he answers "yes", that means the second guard is the Liar, we can then ask him if a particular door leads to heaven. We will get the opposite answer.

If he answers "no", that means that the first guard is the liar. we can then proceed to ask the second guard if a particular door leads to heaven and get the correct reply.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by towr on Jun 8^th, 2007, 3:01am

on 06/08/07 at 02:27:17, Bishamon wrote:

But you can only ask one question in total; not one question to each.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Bishamon on Jun 8^th, 2007, 6:08am

My apologies. I did'nt see that the first time i read it ;D

Well, then just as in the other similar problems, the question to be posed will be "What will the other guard say if I were to ask him if this door lead to heaven?"

4 possible scenarios exist.

I). I was talking to the guard who always lies and was pointing to the right door. In which case he would say "No."

II). I was talking to the guard who always lies and was pointing to the wrong door. He would reply "Yes."

III). Truthful guard and right door. Answer - "No"

IV). Truthful guard and wrong door. Answer - "Yes"

As one can see, we do the opposite of wat we hear.

Hope, I did'nt miss anything out this time. ;)

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Sir Col on Jun 8^th, 2007, 7:51am

on 06/08/07 at 06:08:23, Bishamon wrote:

Hope, I did'nt miss anything out this time. ;)

You ask, "What will the other guard say if I were to ask him if this door lead to heaven?"

The liar could say, "Neither of these doors lead to heaven." Which is a blatant lie.

As the truth teller is aware of the lengths a liar will go to in order to deceive and as a liar knows that the truth teller would provide an honest answer, either of them could reply, "How could I possibly know the mind of a liar?" ;)

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Bishamon on Jun 10^th, 2007, 4:01am

What you said would be have been correct if I had asked something like "What will the other guard say if I were to ask him if which door leads to heaven?"

But since i am specifically pointing a particular door and asking him that question, I imagine he can only answer in the positive or the negative as said in the question. Anways, it has also been mentioned in specifically that we can only ask a "yes-no question".

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Grimbal on Jun 10^th, 2007, 8:20am

Assuming each guard guards one door, you can ask one guard:

Is the door to Hell guarded by a liar?

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Sir Col on Jun 10^th, 2007, 2:51pm

on 06/10/07 at 04:01:58, Bishamon wrote:

Anways, it has also been mentioned in specifically that we can only ask a "yes-no question".

It's all well and fine demanding that they can only answer yes/no to a question, but what would happen if you asked if the Riemann hypothesis is correct?

A truth teller is entitled to answer, "I don't know."

It is interesting to think about what a liar would say to the question about the Riemann hypothesis. Is it really dishonest to say, "Yes" when you don't know. What would happen if it turns out to be true?

Anyway, back to my point...

If the liar were asked the question they would know the response of the truth teller. So they would be lying by saying, "I don't know."
If the truth teller were asked the question they would be aware of the complex and unpredictable nature of the liar, so they could answer, "I don't know."

Or, as I pointed out, either of them could say, "How could I possibly know the mind of a liar?"

The difficulty with this type of problem is that they require the person to co-operate. If I were a compulsive liar then I would do my very best to be as deceptive as possible, which means masking my deception. That is, I would always try to answer questions in a way that would not disclose my dishonest nature.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Grimbal on Jun 10^th, 2007, 3:14pm

I wonder.

If a compulsive liar knows that you know he is a liar, wouldn't he tell the truth to deceive you?

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Archae on Jun 10^th, 2007, 3:16pm

However, Sir Col, wouldn't the truth-telling guard want to do the same (meaning reveal his true truth-telling nature)? If that is the case, by trying to avoid giving any information, the lying guard would give him/herself away. So the real question is if the guards want to hide/reveal their true natures, or if they want to prevent/help your finding the door to Heaven. It seems that one of those two motivations would drive their responses.
Also, if God is a benevolent being, would s/he give you a riddle that would be unsolvable depending on two laymen guards? I think not. A real riddle has a solution - so I think the guards would answer yes or no to the best of their abilities, since the Big Cheese seemed to imply that their responses (not only the question) would be yes-or-no.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Sir Col on Jun 11^th, 2007, 12:08am

on 06/10/07 at 15:14:25, Grimbal wrote:

I wonder.

If a compulsive liar knows that you know he is a liar, wouldn't he tell the truth to deceive you?

That is the unavoidable contradiction of being a liar. By telling lies I am being true to my nature, but by being deceptive about my nature I must tell the truth. Whichever way I am being honest in some respect.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Sir Col on Jun 11^th, 2007, 12:12am

on 06/10/07 at 15:16:02, Archae wrote:

Also, if God is a benevolent being...

I think that we've ruled that possibility out in this riddle. If "god" were to assess our suitability for heaven based on our intellect then that would make him quite malevolent. I am certain that that sort of god would employ the most sophisticated liar and truth tellers possible for this task. ;)

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Grimbal on Jun 11^th, 2007, 1:23am

Anyway, God being by definition almighty, He/She cannot be benevolent.

Almighty implies God has no limitation whatsoever in what God can do. Benevolent means God will not do things that are bad or unfair to humans. This is a contradiction.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by towr on Jun 11^th, 2007, 2:41am

on 06/11/07 at 01:23:47, Grimbal wrote:

Almighty implies God has no limitation whatsoever in what God can do. Benevolent means God will not do things that are bad or unfair to humans. This is a contradiction.

How is that a contradiction? There are tons of things I could do which I won't.
And "no limitation whatsoever" is overstating omnipotence in my opinion; logic is always a limitation. "No physical limitations" seems more in place.

In any case, religious concerns are not in the spirit of the riddle.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Archae on Jun 11^th, 2007, 3:06am

God gives you the riddle to get into Heaven because s/he is aware that you like riddles. Sounds to me like God is trying to be nice... or ironic. It depends on if you succeed ornot I suppose.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by rmsgrey on Jun 11^th, 2007, 7:15am

One of my favourite occurrences of this riddle is in the movie Labyrinth, where a pair of door guards explain to the heroine that one of them always lies, and the other always tells the truth, and that one door leads to her destination while the other doesn't (or something like that - it's been a while...)

Sarah figures out the riddle, but doesn't stop to consider whether she can trust the guards' explanation, and ends up confidently walking into a trap...

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Grimbal on Jun 11^th, 2007, 8:12am

Yeah. If it is one of the guards who tells her that exactly one guard lies, it has to be taken into account.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by rmsgrey on Jun 12^th, 2007, 9:02am

on 06/11/07 at 08:12:21, Grimbal wrote:

Yeah. If it is one of the guards who tells her that exactly one guard lies, it has to be taken into account.

Actually, as I recall, it's a joint effort between both guards to explain the rules...

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Domna on Jun 14^th, 2007, 10:15am

on 05/28/07 at 19:05:51, KjSlag wrote:

I think you need to pay attention to the fact that he states you may ask one guard one yes or no question. It does not mean you cannot ask the guard an open ended question.

Ask: Are you a guard?
Answers:
(1) "Yes."
Then ask: "Which is the door to heaven?" This one will be the truth teller so you can trust his answer.
(2) "No."
Then ask the other guard: "Which is the door to heaven?" You ask the other one because he could either say that the opposit door is the door to heaven or that neither door leads to heaven.

;D

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Noke Lieu on Jun 14^th, 2007, 9:48pm

on 05/28/07 at 19:05:51, KjSlag wrote:

. God tells you that you may ask one guard one yes or no question. (snip)
What question will you ask in order to know for sure which door leads to Heaven?

That leaves imperatives. Yay.
You will tell me which door... ::)

Alternatively, grab the guard and walk through the door with them...

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Three Hands on Jun 15^th, 2007, 5:21am

For grabbing the guard, I'm sure he won't mind heading through the door with you. I mean, it's not as if he has to stay at the eventual destination...

Either that or he knows that if he leaves the entrance lobby guard duty gig, he's heading straight to Hell regardless of the door he goes through, so he's not going to budge if he can help it...

Of course, the real problem you face is that the Devil, who contractually has a part in the forming of such an important test as this, has neglected to tell the guards which door leads where...

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Iceman on Jun 15^th, 2007, 11:55am

You ask no question. You just peek through one of the doors. And if the guard tries to stop you, then the guard is evil, meaning that you have chosen the doors leading to Heaven. :-/

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Roy on Jul 1^st, 2007, 4:16am

God would never put your fate in a ridiculously easy riddle.

When you die, you go to heaven or hell, not some stupid little room with a couple of doors.

Yes, i am a christian, and even though the riddle is only given a heaven hell scenario, i just don't like people saying stuff like that about it.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by clklachu on Jul 5^th, 2007, 7:56am

Hi friends this is my first scrap!! Cool.... was enjoying the conver......... k.Coming to the point!
Instead of asking about a thing that you are not familiar to.... ask them a question that you are aware of it!!
Ask the guards that they breath!
If one says 'NO' then kick him up!!
If the answer is 'Yes' then obviously he does not lie(taking into account that the guards breath) So take that door!!
Need comments....

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Zatanna on Aug 11^th, 2007, 5:27pm

Here's the answer:
http://go-girly.com/go/347
;D

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by srn347 on Aug 26^th, 2007, 9:21pm

So many answers. Ask what the other would say. Ask what that one would say. Use compound questions(are you the truth teller and is the left door the correct one). Ect.

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by alsta3000 on Feb 15^th, 2009, 2:40pm

the answer is simply to ask either guard, if i were to ask the other guard which door he was guarding what would he say, what ever the guard says is the door he is guarding.

for example if the guard were to say heaven then he is guarding heaven, the liar would never say heaven becuase it would give away the fact that he was guarding hell.

simples ;D

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by iono on Feb 18^th, 2009, 8:56pm

That's the ordinary answer, but there are others that work too.
For example, who says you have to go in the door you open first? ;)

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Iceman on Mar 2^nd, 2009, 11:05am

on 02/18/09 at 20:56:38, iono wrote:

..who says you have to go in the door you open first? ;)

You don't have to open a door or ask a question to know the way to heaven. Just touch both doors. The door that leads to hell is warm because it is hot in hell. ::)

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by iono on Mar 2^nd, 2009, 5:06pm

No, its cold as hell

Title: Re: Heaven and Hell
Post by Eigenray on Mar 2^nd, 2009, 9:00pm

on 02/18/09 at 20:56:38, iono wrote:

That's the ordinary answer, but there are others that work too.
For example, who says you have to go in the door you open first? ;)

Why are you so sure you can tell the difference just by looking?

Quote:

A casino where I'm winning? That car must've killed me. I must be in heaven!
[wins again]
A casino where I always win. That's boring. I must really be... in Hell!

A reference of course to "A Nice Place to Visit", which is actually currently available (legally, even, if you're in the US) on the interweb.