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        riddles >> easy >> One Question
        
(Message started by: Leon08 on Feb 5^th, 2005, 9:05pm)

Title: One Question
Post by Leon08 on Feb 5^th, 2005, 9:05pm

Ur at the bottom of a pit with a door to ur right and a door to ur left. One of the doors leads to heaven, the other to hell. There are two men at the top of the pit, one can only tell the truth and one can only lie. U dont no which one does which. U can ask only one Question to determine which door to go through. What is That Question?

Plz help me on this Riddle.........I have heard other versions and figured them out but i have never gotten this one

Title: Re: One Question
Post by Sir Col on Feb 6^th, 2005, 3:05am

The usual "answer" is to pick one person at random and say, "If I asked him (pointing to the other) which way it was to hell, which way would he point?"

The truth teller would look at the liar and, knowing that he would lie and not point at the door to hell, he would point at the door to heaven.
The liar would look at the truth teller and, knowing that he would tell the truth and point at the door to hell, he would point at the door to heaven.
Hence both men would point at the door to heaven.

However, this does not work. There is no real answer to these types of problems, as they depend on a liar being co-operative. Yeah, right!

If I was a liar and you asked me that question...

I would look at the truth teller and, knowing that he would tell the truth and point at the door to hell, I would simply reply, "How can I possibly know the mind of another man?"

That is a blatant lie, as I do know. So I have fulfilled my role as being a dirty rotten liar. ;)

Title: Re: One Question
Post by rmsgrey on Feb 6^th, 2005, 11:49am

on 03/21/03 at 13:16:49, wowbagger wrote:

the riddle you have in mind is quite well-known and appears on the riddles pages in a few variations (with threads in the forum, of course):
Fork in the Road I (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/riddles/hard.shtml#forkInTheRoad1), thread (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_hard;action=display;num=1033971551)
Fork in the Road II (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/riddles/hard.shtml#forkInTheRoad2),
mixed thread (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_hard;action=display;num=1027807082) for FitR I & II,
Fork in the Road III (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/riddles/hard.shtml#forkInTheRoad3),
thread (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_hard;action=display;num=1037291117)

If you use the search facility for "fork road", particularly if you check the "one result per thread" box, you should turn up numerous variations on this riddle.

Title: Re: One Question
Post by SWF on Feb 7^th, 2005, 5:10pm

If I correctly understand the statment of this riddle (what language is that?), there are two men and you ask one question, getting two answers. That is different from the more common form of this question where you may only ask one of the men a question.

How about something like: "If a person with honsesty the same as you who answers all questions with either Yes or No, was asked 'Is this the door to heaven?', what would he say?"

If that door is to heaven, the truth teller says Yes, since he must lie the liar can not say No.

If that door is to hell, the truth teller says No, the liar can not say Yes.

How would you deal with that, Sir Col?

Title: Re: One Question
Post by Noke Lieu on Feb 7^th, 2005, 5:35pm

Nice one SWF.

on 02/06/05 at 03:05:45, Sir Col wrote:

If I was a liar and you asked me that question...

I would simply reply, "How can I possibly know the mind of another man?"

Yet that is not answering the question. Posing a subsequent question doesn't answer... he said waiting to be caught out.

Besides, I reckon I might just try climbing out of the pit. Looks like I am dead anyway, can't be much more to lose until I choose a door.

Title: Re: One Question
Post by Sir Col on Feb 8^th, 2005, 3:48am

Noke Lieu, my defence would be that I answered with a rhetorical question, but if you disagreed, I could reply, "I don't have a clue what he would say!" What you must remember is that not all questions can be answered, even by an honest person. For example, how would an honest person answer, "Does Sir Col like cabbage?" That is, if we can accept an honest person admitting that they don't know the answer as a valid answer, it must be a valid answer, albeit a lie, from a dishonest person.

SWF, you're assuming that a dishonest person will co-operate. If I were a liar, I knew the answer, and I was aware that answering it would catch me out, I'd reply, "I have no idea!" That is a blatant lie, because I do know the answer.

I asked a question to which I don't know the answer in the Fork in the Road I (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_hard;action=display;num=1033971551;start=50) thread. Quoted here:

on 02/03/05 at 07:06:12, Sir Col wrote:

This does raise, in my view, a much more interesting question. How would a liar respond to a question that they genuinely do not know the answer to? For example, if I asked a liar, "Is it true or false that I like cabbage?" they run the risk of being honest by replying true or false. You could argue that they are being dishonest by answering a question they do not know the answer to, but I wonder?

Title: Re: One Question
Post by Noke Lieu on Feb 8^th, 2005, 2:44pm

Sir Col: So, Is it true or false that I like cabbage?

Guard One: I humbly beseech you, good Sir Col, to chose another question. For I am sworn to tell the obfuscated truth, and have concerns about giving an answer that would shed light on this matter.

Guard Two (turning to guard one): You what? You're a nutter. And when did you start speaking like an over the top actor? Think about it... If he didn't like cabbage, then he'd be mighty mighty hungry, from what people tell me. Besides, you might have said "I suppose so", or " I suppose not" or "if you're anything like me, then yes you do". You've lost all enthusiasm for this job, haven't you?

Guard One: Well, at least I've got my own teeth.
Gurad Two: Yeah, in a jar by your bed.
Guard One: Man, I am so going to punch square on the nose.
Premeptively, Guard Two strikes Gaurd one, and knocks him out.

Guard Two: So, Sir Col, which door are you going through?
xxxxxxxxxx
Yeah, you're right Sir Col- it's a toughy. My point was (originally) that by your own reasoning the liar won't cooperate and give a curly answer that doesn't help.
Is it true I like cabbage?; what's that supposed to mean?; well do I like cabbage?: If you're like me then, yes, you do; Do you like cabbage?; Yes.

Title: Re: One Question
Post by SWF on Feb 8^th, 2005, 7:08pm

on 02/08/05 at 03:48:29, Sir Col wrote:

I'd reply, "I have no idea!" That is a blatant lie, because I do know the answer.

You are missing my point: the way the question is phrased does not say that you may ask one question to one guard. It says you ask one question and that there are two guards, so I interpret that as you get two answers. Your evasive answer would pinpoint you as the liar, and the truth teller's response gives away the door to heaven. If the liar tries to be deceptive he would be telling the truth and lose credibility as a liar.

Title: Re: One Question
Post by Sir Col on Feb 9^th, 2005, 9:37am

Sorry, you are right, I did miss your point. In which case, yes, that would work. But I still contest that we can never obtain a useful answer from an intelligent compulsive liar.

Title: Re: One Question
Post by SWF on Feb 9^th, 2005, 7:08pm

If I am unsure whether a compulsive liar is alive or dead, and ask "Are you alive?", how will the liar not give me useful information and still lie? Somebody who continues to lie on the ground playing dead is lier not a liar.

Title: Re: One Question
Post by Leon08 on Feb 9^th, 2005, 9:41pm

Sir Col got it right

U ask one of the men this question

"If i ask the other man what door leads to heaven, what would he say"?

Because the question envolves both Men so the answer they give will always be a lie. ;D

Title: Re: One Question
Post by Noke Lieu on Feb 9^th, 2005, 10:22pm

Leon08, just curious here... did you read what we were discussing?
For most folk around here, that main skill invovled in that puzzle is recall. But, yes, Sir Col did indeed provide the intended answer first.

Title: Re: One Question
Post by guest on Feb 27^th, 2005, 8:48pm

on 02/07/05 at 17:10:57, SWF wrote:

(what language is that?)

honsesty

and you typo... you could at least make your post correcting his post correct

sorry for this post, but he is allowed to write however he desires

Title: Re: One Question
Post by rmsgrey on Feb 28^th, 2005, 6:59am

on 02/27/05 at 20:48:50, guest wrote:

and you typo... you could at least make your post correcting his post correct

sorry for this post, but he is allowed to write however he desires

And there was me thinking "typo" was a noun, not a verb... you could at least make your post correcting his post correct.

Oh, and capitals and periods are generally accepted to make text easier to read.

While it is a touch impolite to call attention to another's discourtesies, there is also the duty to instruct: if someone is unaware that their behaviour is offensive, then it is necessary for someone to draw their attention to it in some way if they are to cease. When attempting to communicate generally, it is discourteous to make your message harder to understand than necessary - which includes poor spelling, grammar and punctuation. In the specific case where you are seeking assistance, it seems not merely rude, but downright ungrateful to require those who would assist you to first decipher your message, then solve your problem. If you expect them to take the time to reply, surely it is not too much to expect you to take the time to phrase your question?

Title: Re: One Question
Post by SWF on Feb 28^th, 2005, 6:46pm

on 02/27/05 at 20:48:50, guest wrote:

sorry for this post, but he is allowed to write however he desires

I would edit the error (delete an S to change 'honsesty' to 'honesty'), but want my post to remain in its orginal form so there is no doubt as to what I said.

I simply asked what language that was without pointing out any errors or trying to deny the right to spell, capitalize, and punctuate as desired. I wanted to know what that type of spelling is called. It seems to be popular with kids these days. Perhaps the abbreviated form is popular when typing each letter is an ordeal, such as for slow typists, or using a cell phone keypad to type text messages.

I thought it might be "Leet" (1337), but based on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet) this form seems to be called "AOL Speak":

Quote:

They do not consider the use of extreme short forms (such as "b" for "be", or "u" for "you") as leetspeak; instead, they refer to it by such terms as "AOL speak". This is because they associate such habits with users who use ISPs like AOL, which is associated with "newness" and therefore not considered "elite".

Apparently, my interpretation of the question was incorrect, but use of the same dialect as the overwhelming majority of other posts to this forum probably would have helped.