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        riddles >> easy >> Kindergarten Application
        
(Message started by: Speaker on Jan 19th, 2003, 10:30pm)
Title: Kindergarten Application
Post by Speaker on Jan 19th, 2003, 10:30pm
This is the first time I have seen this particular puzzle as a Japanese kindergarten entrance exam question. But, it is a classic, in that it requires a child's perspective to answer it. No number theory involved.

It may help to realize that some of the kids taking these tests do not yet know how to count. And the ones that do all count in Japanese anyway; ichi, ni, san, shi, go...

I figured out the answer, although not within a time limit that might be expected in any kind of test.  

I won't post the answer, but then it is not so hard anyway.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by jon_G on Jan 19th, 2003, 10:36pm
Is it 4....2.....0...???? Well that's what a high school education gets you. ;)
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Speaker on Jan 19th, 2003, 10:39pm
Not all of your guesses are wrong.

Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by BNC on Jan 19th, 2003, 11:38pm
Interesting.
Only since it's meant for kids, I would guess 2, at that's because I assume we are meant to count "circles" in the numbers
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Speaker on Jan 19th, 2003, 11:59pm
Yes, that is what I got also. And, having some experience with the Japanese education system, I am sure it is correct.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by udippel on Jan 20th, 2003, 4:35am
Maybe mine is not a Kindergarten solution, but what do I know about Japanese Kindergarten??
My idea had been, that you take the difference to the full 10s for the numbers the first digit away therefrom. Ooops, how to say that easier??:
10 is the first full amount (Kindergarten, you know) of the fingers of child's hands. '1' is the first digit of ten, so you calculate the difference for 1 result below and one result above that first full hands: 4+4 = 8, which is two below, 5+5 = 10 (0 off), 6+6 = 12, finally 2 above 10.
For twenty (two kid's hands), you use the two numbers below (8+8 = 16, difference is 4; 9+9 = 18: 2 below), and the two above (not mentioned). The difference between 20 and 10+10 is zero, so my answer had been 0.
Hmm, not too obvious, I agree, but who can prove me wrong !
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Rurouni on Jan 20th, 2003, 6:34pm
The answer is MUCH simpler than anyone has guessed to far. I would tell you what it is, but I don't want to give it away. ^_^
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Speaker on Jan 20th, 2003, 6:55pm
Rurouni
So far two people have guessed right. Although, I didn't post my answer in the spirit of initiating further discussion. However, BNC guessed correctly, but hid his answer.

I have to agree with you that the answer is elegant in its simplicity.

You might even say the answer is "too," simple.  

If you have a different answer, let us have it.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Pietro K.C. on Jan 20th, 2003, 8:20pm
Well, it seems I got a different solution from everyone else, and it seems even simpler... heh. If I were a kid, I'm almost sure I'd read the puzzle carefully:

"Given the following information, what is 10 + 10?

1+1=0; 2+2=0; 3+3=0; 4+4=2; 5+5=0; 6+6=2; 7+7=0; 8+8=4; 9+9=2; 10+10=?"

Well, the information tells us in no uncertain terms that 10+10=? . :)
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by wowbagger on Jan 22nd, 2003, 1:44am

on 01/20/03 at 20:20:42, Pietro K.C. wrote:
Well, the information tells us in no uncertain terms that 10+10=? . :)

I like this solution. :D

It took me over a day to come up with the "real" solution by the way. And no, I wasn't pondering over this riddle for more than 24 hours without intermission! ;) The penny dropped yesterday on my way home and I briefly considered going back on the spot to check my answer...

In my opinion, this riddle is a good example of how difficult it can be not to think too complicatedly.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by aero guy on Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:05am
This is a great little riddle.  As a clue to those who are still puzzling, think graphically.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by aero guy on Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:21am
Oh, I just gave this to a friend and he came up with: number of factors minus two which not only works, but gives you the right answer for the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Speaker on Jan 22nd, 2003, 7:58pm
How can the number of factors minus two give the correct answers.

2+2 = 4
Doesn't 4 have three factors, 1,2,4?

So the clue would read 2+2=1.

Maybe your friend had some other factors in mind.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by wowbagger on Jan 23rd, 2003, 1:55am

on 01/22/03 at 19:58:22, Speaker wrote:
Maybe your friend had some other factors in mind.

I suppose he meant prime factors of the numbers on the left hand side of the equation:
2+2 has two prime factors which acounts for the 0 while e.g. 9+9 = 32+32 has four prime factors which results in 2.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by aero guy on Jan 23rd, 2003, 12:34pm
yup, that is what he did, kind of academic though since it is wrong.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by redPEPPER on Jan 24th, 2003, 2:29am
How is it wrong? (aside from the fact that it's not the expected answer, which is not enough to make it a wrong answer)
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Frank Garcia on Jan 27th, 2003, 7:33am
I have an answer but I don't want to post it and spoil it for others.  Who can I email and verify that my answer is correct?
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by BNC on Jan 27th, 2003, 7:54am
Hi Frank,

You can post your answer, and surround it with “hide” tags. Before the spoiler, write:
[ h i d e ], and after [ / h i d e ] (without the extra spaces).
Check here (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_suggestions;action=display;num=1043138466) for a fuller explaination.
To see hidden test, select it with your mouse. You may see some “strange” posts, with missing words, or even whole sections. The posters haven’t lost their mind – just hidden the text.

Welcome to the board.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Frank Garcia on Jan 27th, 2003, 8:03am
Alright, here is what I think it is.
[hide] I think the answer is "?" [/hide]
Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Frank Garcia on Jan 27th, 2003, 10:24am
Read hidden text below to see how I came up with my answer.
[hide] The answer to the question is in the question itself.  What is 10+10 Well in the list of numbers the last thing it says is 10+10=? so the answer to the question what is 10+10 equal to has to be "?" [/hide]
What do you think?
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by BNC on Jan 27th, 2003, 11:03am
Hello again, Frank.

Your answer is possible, and was posted by Pietro K.C. a few posts back. It may (or may not) have been the intended answer, but IMHO seems to fit like other proposals.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Speaker on Jan 27th, 2003, 11:54pm
Hello Frank

I like your reasoning, I have applied it in some other threads And it reminds me of a rather interesting riddle


What is the most questionable term in this sentence

;)
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by BNC on Jan 28th, 2003, 4:29am
[hide]
What. You said so yourself!  ;)
[/hide]
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Frank on Jan 28th, 2003, 7:07am
Hidden text below:
[hide] Well anytime I see the word is, I take it as an = sign.  Knowing that I translate your riddle like this.

the most questionable thing in this sentince = what

So the answer must be "What"[/hide]
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by redPEPPER on Jan 28th, 2003, 7:23am
Except that ... nobody asked!   :P

[hide] if "what is the most questionable term in this sentence" is a statement (as can be gathered from the absence of question mark) then it's not a question.  We're just informed that "what" is questionable.  We're not asked anything at all, hehee.  So, the answer is not "what".

It's like:
- The sky is blue
- Well, blue of course!
[/hide]
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Burton on Apr 26th, 2003, 6:26pm
1+1=0; 2+2=0; 3+3=0; 4+4=2; 5+5=0; 6+6=2; 7+7=0; 8+8=4; 9+9=2; 10+10=?"

10 + 10 = 2, since that's the total number of enclosed spaces formed by the two numbers.  So 48 + 48 = 6, and 88 + 88 = 8, and so on.
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by wowbagger on Apr 28th, 2003, 1:41am
As a side note, you can seriously mutilate this riddle when passing it on to someone else if you write it by hand (or in an appropriate font) such that [hide] the four isn't "4", but written as on many score boards (using four of the seven elements). I don't know the technical term, but I guess you know what I mean. This shape is quite common in handwriting where I live[/hide].
Title: Re: Kindergarten Application
Post by Johnny on Nov 30th, 2003, 11:22am
hey udippel,

youre wrong:

7+7=0 , not 4 or 6 like your theory would predict

i had the same thought as you though.


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