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Topic: Keeper of treasure... (Read 1276 times) |
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raven
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Keeper of treasure...
« on: Feb 8th, 2004, 8:41pm » |
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Keeper of treasure for your pleasure beyond measure,
caretaker of birth spreading life across earth,
bringer of light casting back the deep night,
shower of ways how to live well of days.
Is my greatest gift gold freed from symmetries hold,
or the life I help make that all creatures partake,
or light without falter shining high on thine altar,
or my delicate care which example I share?
My greatest gift is unspoken,
the seal that is broken;
Noble bringer of death,
for honor, my last breath.
???...................................~Raven
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| « Last Edit: Feb 8th, 2004, 8:44pm by raven » |
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John_Gaughan
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #1 on: Feb 9th, 2004, 5:34am » |
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::woman ::
I can justify it with this line:
Quote: My greatest gift is unspoken,
the seal that is broken; |
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There are a few more lines that help that assertion, but this is my favorite one 
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raven
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #2 on: Feb 9th, 2004, 7:51pm » |
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1 - Keeper of treasure for your pleasure beyond measure,
2 - caretaker of birth spreading life across earth,
3 - bringer of light casting back the deep night,
4 - shower of ways how to live well of days.
5 - Is my greatest gift gold freed from symmetries hold,
6 - or the life I help make that all creatures partake,
7 - or light without falter shining high on thine altar,
8 - or my delicate care which example I share?
9 - My greatest gift is unspoken,
10 - the seal that is broken;
11 - Noble bringer of death,
12 - for honor, my last breath.
I can see how your answer fits lines 1, 2, 4, 8 and maybe 3 and 10 in one context and 12 in a chivalric sense.
However lines 5, 6, 7, 11 and probably 12 seem to contest your answer.
Does anyone see how it fits these other lines? If not, take a deeper look for a more ( hopefully  ) apt answer.
Hint :: this riddle does not have to be spoken by a man to be true. ::
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| « Last Edit: Feb 9th, 2004, 7:56pm by raven » |
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Cathos
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #3 on: Feb 9th, 2004, 9:09pm » |
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Is the answer perhaps God or Christ?
That might fit the first 2 stanzas but the last one makes me doubt it, especially "Noble bringer of death" Thought I think the last line "for honor my last breath" would fit quite well with Christ
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raven
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #4 on: Feb 10th, 2004, 6:44pm » |
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I can see how "bringer of light" and "shower of ways" and "light without falter shining high on thine altar" and some others could give you that answer... I must admit I have a penchant for ritual imagery… I do think that lines 1 and 5 especially go against that specific answer though.
I’m glad to see that people are thinking about this one a little bit 
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Speaker
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #5 on: Feb 16th, 2004, 1:23am » |
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My guess would be the sun .
But, I can't get it to work with the last stanza, but maybe I am not poet enough. If I force the meaning, then maybe, anyway I stand by my guess (sound of foot stomping!) 
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John_Gaughan
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #6 on: Feb 16th, 2004, 5:36pm » |
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Speaker, you sound like you are on the right track, but I don't know the answer so I don't know. Could it be daylight?
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Kazn
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #7 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 6:13pm » |
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You sound right, but I don't see how it is a noble bringer of death?
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Speaker
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #8 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 6:44pm » |
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Well, I agree that it is a little stretch, but.
In the autumn the entire world dies (poetically speaking). The leaves become dry and brittle and fall from their sunny perches to their deaths. So, maybe if I could write more nobly then their deaths would seem noble.
But, it is a stretch.
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raven
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #9 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 10:32pm » |
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Hello all,
I’ve been busy as imaginable this last week, sorry I haven’t been able to respond to the forum until now.
I received some critical feedback about this particular riddle, that it’s answer wasn’t an “epiphany” and that it was too obscure and convoluted, I should have made it shorter and more essential. But it’s kind of late for that now. Also, I made it as an element to an RPG I’m developing for a Role Playing system I’m developing, so there’s some necessary references built in that wouldn’t be there with other riddles I make.
All that said, I have made some refinements to the whole riddle. I can’t say that this will actually make it easier to solve, but I submit them just the same.
Also, you can ignore the final stanza to simplify the riddle, you can also just read the first four couplets or the second four couplets if it helps make things easier to mentally digest, there’s a lot of redundancy in this one.
Keeper of treasure,
steeped in sensual pleasure;
caretaker of birth,
spreading life across earth;
sustainer of light,
casting back the deep night;
revealer of death,
for life, my last breath.
Is my greatest gift gold,
freed from symmetry’s hold;
or the life I help make,
that earth's creatures partake;
or light without falter,
shining high on thine altar;
or example of days,
how frail, mortal ways?
My greatest gift of harmony take,
noble logos of matriarch-spirit awake;
Every action in service to many,
nourished by one, great mother of plenty.
Hint :: couplets 3 ( sustainer of light, casting back the deep night ) and 7 ( or light without falter, shining high on thine altar ) are indirect references to who I am, all the rest are direct references. ::
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Cathos
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #10 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 11:16pm » |
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This is a tough one Raven. A guess would be nature or mother nature which fits some of the clues, but it seems to be a stretch for others. Other ideas I had, which I'm pretty sure are wrong were a chest, or gold
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Sum Arbor
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Speaker
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #11 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 12:34am » |
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Raven
I think I have the answer: a seed.
However, you may want a particular type. Let me think about it. Or, maybe I'm wrong. 
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guest
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #12 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 3:08pm » |
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:: text is hidden becasue it is full of guesses that may be right ::
Hmmm,
I think that Speeker is right - and perhaps the specific seed is a "sun"-flower seed. When this riddle first showed up, I though of seed, but passed on it because of the clues that implied the mystery object gives off light.
Anyway, initially I didn't spend too much time on this one before I gave up - because as I've stated before, I'm not too fond of riddles using metaphors without advanced notice.
This is another one where I feel the metaphor is misplaced. Sunflowers, while named for their color and appearance being similiar to that of the sun, are not sources of illumination themselves. So the bits that imply they do seem like bad clues to me.
Then again the answer could be something else besides "sunflower seed." Maybe it's some kind of glow-in-the-dark seed or not even a seed at all. If so, please ignore all my above concerns.
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John_Gaughan
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #13 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 8:26pm » |
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My guess is it is some type of flower.
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raven
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #14 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 9:53pm » |
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These hints are for anyone who is getting tired of pounding against this particular riddle. They may be helpful or just a tease…
Hint :: flower is currently the closest guess, but it is still a jump to the intended answer ::
Big Hint :: while I can see a seed sustaining light in its eventual form as wood, I have trouble seeing it shining high on an altar ::
Obscure Hint :: if there are any pagan types out there, and if you consider this to be an invocation ( of sorts ) then the answer is in the sound of what is missing from this invocation-riddle ::
What I like about riddles is seeing where people go with them, especially what alternative answers could work but never crossed my mind in making the riddle. Speaker’s answer fits well across most of the riddle. I hope the intended answer works at least as well as his, but his is still a pretty good answer, just not the intended one. The reason Cathos’ answer is very close, but still a bit vague to the intended answer leads me to yet another hint…
Obscure Hint :: the answer was often used historically as a symbol for nature or mother nature, it is just not a well know symbol, more rightly it was the symbol for various Nobility and the noble connection to natural forces during coronation and also for Nature Goddesses throughout time. That is where the last stanza of two couplets draws much of it’s source, however the very last couplet is also a very real clue to the answer ::
I hope these hints provide some guidance to those who want it…
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Speaker
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #15 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 10:03pm » |
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Well, after digesting the hints, here is another stab is it an oak tree? Do Oak trees symbolize nobility?
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raven
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #16 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 10:13pm » |
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Speaker :: Oak trees were celtic symbols of the connection to the otherworld. I'm not sure about the nobility aspect. Once again, I'm not sure how an oak would shine high on an altar... ::
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Speaker
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #17 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 10:22pm » |
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Don't you mention in one of your hints that the light shining aspects are in reference to you? Did I misunderstand that part?
Anyway, your preternatural need to have the answers meet every single hint in the riddle is a topic you might want to discuss with your therapist. 
But, after the joke inspiration hits. If you build an altar from Oak (the traditional material used for altars in most parts of the galaxy), then it would shine if you waxed it and polished it.
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Cathos
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #18 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 11:31pm » |
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A guess; could it be a lotus blossom/flower? They are very common in bhuddist cultures and are related closely to fire, light, and nature. As far as I know, it has had no role in coronations though.
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Sum Arbor
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John_Gaughan
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #19 on: Feb 25th, 2004, 5:55am » |
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1 - acorn
2 - leaf on an oak tree
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Icarus
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #20 on: Feb 25th, 2004, 4:16pm » |
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How about an olive?
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Cathos
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #21 on: Feb 25th, 2004, 6:56pm » |
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I think that one fits quite nicely, Icarus. I was going to say olive branch but I think yours may be closer. If you don't mind I'll venture some justification for that answer:
Keeper of treasure,
steeped in sensual pleasure;
>Olive oil (and olives) were a major crop for mediterranian cultures in ancient times (and still are) and contributed very much to the income of such countries
caretaker of birth,
spreading life across earth;
>Perhaps referring to the seeds of the plant, or the fruit which provides nurishment for the seed
sustainer of light,
casting back the deep night;
>Olive oil can be used to fuel lamps/lanterns
revealer of death,
for life, my last breath.
>Not really sure, but I think maybe the plant was used in funural services in the past
Is my greatest gift gold,
freed from symmetry’s hold;
>Again, the oil, freed from the fruit. Pure oil has a gold-green color.
or the life I help make,
that earth's creatures partake;
>The seed of an olive makes a new tree, and oil/olives are sold throughout the world (most of the good kinds come from the mediterranean) :)
or light without falter,
shining high on thine altar;
>Again referring to burning the oil, this time used in (perhaps pagan) religious ceremonies
or example of days,
how frail, mortal ways?
>Olive branches represent peace, which mortals should embrace
My greatest gift of harmony take,
noble logos of matriarch-spirit awake;
>Hmm... Perhaps reffering to the olive used in a symbolic sense
Every action in service to many,
nourished by one, great mother of plenty.
>All olive trees (and olives) are nurished by the earth
Is this along the lines of what you were thinking, Icarus? Sorry if it's not, but they make alot of sense to me. Perhaps Raven has a better answer in mind, though.
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DeMark
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #22 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 1:30am » |
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:wheat?: this is just a try... :
Is my greatest gift gold,
freed from symmetry’s hold;
or the life I help make,
that earth's creatures partake;
or light without falter,
shining high on thine altar;
- when you describe wheat, you say that it's gold. You make flour from wheat, and then bread from flour. Wheat is Christian symbol, they say that bread brings life, and you make host from wheat. Host is shining on altar, isn't it? Umm, I hope you understand what I want to say, I kinda mixed it all up....: 
But I can't see how it fits other lines...
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| « Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2004, 1:55am by DeMark » |
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Icarus
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #23 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 4:27pm » |
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That was pretty much my reasoning, as well. The religious ceremonies do not have to be pagan. Olive oil is a common component in insenses.
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"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
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When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
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raven
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Re: Keeper of treasure...
« Reply #24 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 8:02pm » |
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I can't say that I can build a stronger argument for my answer than Cathos and Icarus did for :: olive or olive branch :: Also DeMark’s answer is very solid, I can agree with his reasoning on all points… I personally believe if a solid answer is provided, then the riddle is solved. Even if it's not the intended answer.
Thank you all for your endurance... I learned a lot and had a lot of fun.
If anyone wants to continue to fiddle with the riddle, here are a couple of final hints...
Hint :: My greatest gift of harmony take is referring to a harmony of nature within a living community that is recognized as having a phenomenal community of its sort ::
Hint :: The intended answer is more literal overall than Cathos' and Icarus’ answer ::
Hint :: If you let your mind wander on the line Is my greatest gift gold, freed from symmetry’s hold what images come to mind, why did I use the words symmetry and gold together? ::
For all the rest who are ready to move on to the next thing, this is my intended answer and my justification for it ( which you all earned by now )...
:: “a bee” ::
Keeper of treasure,
steeped in sensual pleasure;
( bees keep the treasure of honey, which is usually considered a treasure of the senses.. and I can easily argue is sensual )
caretaker of birth,
spreading life across earth;
( spreading pollen is the spreading of birth or life )
sustainer of light,
casting back the deep night;
( this is a stretch in that the wax of the bee is what sustains the light, the light of course casts back the night )
revealer of death,
for life, my last breath.
( this is also a stretch in that bees don’t literally reveal death, but in their observation death could be pondered and the action of losing their life in the struggle for life, either their own or to protect the life of the hive from a common threat )
Is my greatest gift gold,
freed from symmetry’s hold;
( again honey and the hexagonal honeycomb matrix )
or the life I help make,
that earth's creatures partake;
( the life made is aided by the bee which is in the role of caretaker, the life of which is food and fruit and flowers used by most all of earth’s creatures in one form or another )
or light without falter,
shining high on thine altar;
( what shines on an alter, besides olive oil, are candles, which were originally and still often are made from bees’ wax )
or example of days,
how frail, mortal ways?
( I grow fond of my own words, a pitfall in riddle writing. Bees however have been used as examples of community, industry, harmony, the greater mind of nature… so why not how frail life is in the act of their death? You decide how much of a stretch this is. )
My greatest gift of harmony take,
noble logos of matriarch-spirit awake;
( from my earlier hints, bees were used as symbols for the mother goddesses across a number of religions. Here is a page with some interesting bee history involving religion and coronations: :: http://www. lissabee.net/blessedbee.html :: there are many other examples than this.
Every action in service to many,
nourished by one, great mother of plenty.
( bees work in the community of the hive, they are guided and given sustenance by the queen bee, the queen bee also destroys the drones when she is through with them in egg fertilizing capacity ( I’m pretty sure anyway… ) although that fact doesn't really tie into the riddle.
Blessed Be
Some support for your answers… beyond what you already stated.
Olive wood is sacred in the making of altars and the like.
Wheat could easily be a symbol of death, the grim reaper uses a scythe. I believe effigies of Kings used to be burned as part of a harvest ceremony.
::
~Raven
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| « Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2004, 8:08pm by raven » |
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