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Topic: Black black black. Everywhere! (Read 1736 times) |
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onlyme722
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Black black black. Everywhere!
« on: Mar 4th, 2008, 2:13pm » |
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I have one. This is probably super-easy, but it was one of my favs when I was younger, but it's still food for thought, right?
A town is completely covered in BLACK. Everything, everyone is black (as in the background of this forum). These people don't build, produce, or create anything but black, their world is black. A man is driving down the street and a dog runs into the middle of the road. The man stops and let's the dog pass. Why didn't the man run over the dog?
Any questions you may ask are probably answerable once you realize the obvious answer. This is probably too easy  , but indulge me.
And of course, if you've heard this one, don't bother posting the answer .
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| « Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2008, 3:11pm by onlyme722 » |
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Random Lack of Squiggily Lines
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #1 on: Mar 4th, 2008, 3:52pm » |
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know this one to, but from a mind trap
dont read:really, i told you not to read, and you did. i dont trust you
i dubble not trust you now
it is daytime
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You can only believe i what you can prove, and since you have nothing proven to cmpare to, you can believe in nothing.
I have ~50 posts to hack a "R" into a "D". Which one?
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onlyme722
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #2 on: Mar 4th, 2008, 3:54pm » |
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on Mar 4th, 2008, 3:52pm, tiber13 wrote:know this one to, but from a mind trap
dont read:really, i told you not to read, and you did. i dont trust you
i dubble not trust you now
it is daytime |
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BAH! You are a such a bummer . I specifically asked that if you KNOW the answer not to just post it . People are lazy, you killed my thread  .
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Grimbal
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #3 on: Mar 5th, 2008, 1:17am » |
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on Mar 4th, 2008, 3:52pm, tiber13 wrote:| dont read:really, i told you not to read, and you did. i dont trust you |
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I didn't. Why don't you trust me? 
Anyway, is the dog white?
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onlyme722
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #4 on: Mar 5th, 2008, 3:18am » |
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on Mar 5th, 2008, 1:17am, Grimbal wrote:
I didn't. Why don't you trust me?
Anyway, is the dog white? |
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Well I am kinda like the moderator for this thread, and since I know the answer I am looking for I am entitled to read anything posted to see how close any one has come .
hahaha...yea, the dog is white, despite the fact that for my own purposes...white=black.
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onlyme722
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #5 on: Mar 5th, 2008, 3:18am » |
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THANK YOU tiber, you clever person, you
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onlyme722
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #6 on: Mar 5th, 2008, 3:28am » |
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on Mar 5th, 2008, 3:18am, onlyme722 wrote:
Well I am kinda like the moderator for this thread, and since I know the answer I am looking for I am entitled to read anything posted to see how close any one has come .
hahaha...yea, the dog is white, despite the fact that for my own purposes...white=black.
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Oh...I've had 2 screw drivers (and some MD 20/20...yes, it's been one of those nights) so pardon me if I've neglected to answer your question about the color (assuming you weren't being a smart ass )
...the dog is not white . 
To those of you being honest so far...don't read the answer, I promise that it is super easy. It just requires that you shout the first thing you think of, or at least the first few things for those of you with overly creative minds  . I was something like 11 years old when I guessed this, and yes...I smile with an annoyingly proud grin that I was the only one among my peers to guess this within 2 minutes, thus stunning our supervisor. Just remember, most riddles are most easily solved by children...the simple-(and uncluttered)-minded.
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iono
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #7 on: Mar 8th, 2008, 6:09pm » |
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Ive heard this one SO many times....
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| « Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2008, 6:10pm by iono » |
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Grimbal
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #8 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 6:23am » |
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Is the answer as simple as this?
He didn't run over the dog because he likes dogs. And he doesn't want to dent his car.
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alien2
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #9 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 8:12am » |
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Are they also black, as in Africans? Sorry Egyptians, but I dunno much about geography. I like cats though.
Or maybe this town has a lot of petroleum.
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Random Lack of Squiggily Lines
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #10 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 10:44am » |
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for my reference, white = up
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You can only believe i what you can prove, and since you have nothing proven to cmpare to, you can believe in nothing.
I have ~50 posts to hack a "R" into a "D". Which one?
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alien2
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #11 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 11:20am » |
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Perhaps white is a pleasant change after the obscure subject. Although I prefer 'stars' myself. 
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temporary
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #12 on: Mar 11th, 2008, 10:36pm » |
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Or maybe he didn't run over the dog because they aren't on the same street.
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JiNbOtAk
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #13 on: Mar 11th, 2008, 11:22pm » |
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He did hit the dog, but everything is soo black, no one noticed. Not the passerby, who only say black, not the driver, who felt hitting something black, not even the dog, which only felt black.
By the way, what is the colour of a red ball in a black, lightless, non-illuminated room ?
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Sir Col
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #14 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 12:46am » |
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on Mar 11th, 2008, 11:22pm, JiNbOtAk wrote:| By the way, what is the colour of a red ball in a black, lightless, non-illuminated room ? |
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I'll start the ball rolling (so to speak)... it's amazing how many people will erroneously say, red.
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towr
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #15 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 2:02am » |
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on Mar 11th, 2008, 11:22pm, JiNbOtAk wrote:| By the way, what is the colour of a red ball in a black, lightless, non-illuminated room ? |
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Depends on what you mean by colour.
Of course, if it isn't red, then there isn't a red ball in that room, therefor the premise is false, and the ball can be said to be whichever colour or colours you want including red.
I also suspect it is physically impossible that no amount of photons in the visible band are bouncing around in the room; although they may be exceedingly rare (Planck's law is continuous and positive for each wavelength). It would also be odd to say an object only has a colour at the moment a photon reflects on it, or a reflected photon hits the receptors in your eye, because photons are discrete. This would entail that there is (under normal circumstance) a very rapid succession where the object does and doesn't have a colour, depending whether at the moment a photon is or isn't reflecting/being received.
A third consideration is the fact that colour, as we know it, really isn't a physical property. Under different circumstance we will call different bands in the EM spectrum red. Colour is a phenomenal property, it's "projected" outwards from our mind. Of course, it's still (usually) based on some physical stimulation of the eyes. Under the same physical circumstances, you wouldn't expect to see different colours (not unless your perceptual system has undergone some non-trivial changes). But along those lines, if the physical properties of the ball don't changes, it can be said to remain whichever colour it was under normal circumstances, even if it doesn't look like it at the moment; the "real colour" would simply be hidden, not absent.
So in conclusion, I have to disagree with Sir Col's assertion that it would be erroneous to say it's red. It makes at least as much sense to say it's red than to say it has no colour.
(I imagine one could write a full length philosophical paper on it, but this is enough for me this early in the morning)
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JiNbOtAk
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #16 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 2:47am » |
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on Mar 12th, 2008, 12:46am, Sir Col wrote:
I'll start the ball rolling (so to speak)... it's amazing how many people will erroneously say, red. |
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on Mar 12th, 2008, 2:02am, towr wrote:
Sir Col rocks !! 
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towr
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #17 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 3:03am » |
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on Mar 12th, 2008, 2:47am, JiNbOtAk wrote:| Sir Col rocks !! |
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Would I have rocked if I had posted five minutes before him say "it's amazing how many people will erroneously say, not red"?
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Grimbal
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #18 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 7:38am » |
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What if you remember what the ball looked like before you switch off the light?
Anyway, the question asks "what is the colour of a red ball in ...". It is red by definition.
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Sir Col
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #19 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 4:54pm » |
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on Mar 12th, 2008, 3:03am, towr wrote:
Would I have rocked if I had posted five minutes before him say "it's amazing how many people will erroneously say, not red"? |
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I think JiNbOtAk was referring to my terrible attempt at humour: "I'll start the ball rolling...".
towr, suppose that an object's pigmentation alters depending on temperature. Consequently its colour would appear to change. In other words, altering the environmental conditions of the object changes its colour. Similarly by altering the amount of light, we reduce the capacity of the ball to demonstrate its "ability" to absorb all colours of the spectrum except for red. In fact, the "red" ball is now exhibiting all the properties of a "black" ball. That is, no visible light reflects from it all in a dark room. So could we still say that a red ball is red if it behaves precisely like a black ball under the same conditions?
To put it slightly differently, the notion of colour is the perceived capacity of an object to absorb/reflect visible light. Deny visible light to the object and we no longer have a red ball as it is no longer reflecting red visible light. I agree that the pigmentation and capacity to absorb/reflect has not changed, but in terms of how it is perceived, in a darkened room, it is no more red than it is black; that is, it reflect no light at all.
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #20 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 4:59pm » |
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it cant be black, because black is not a coulor, it is the absence of colour....
drag problems together, i will
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You can only believe i what you can prove, and since you have nothing proven to cmpare to, you can believe in nothing.
I have ~50 posts to hack a "R" into a "D". Which one?
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JiNbOtAk
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #21 on: Mar 12th, 2008, 8:03pm » |
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on Mar 12th, 2008, 3:03am, towr wrote:| Would I have rocked if I had posted five minutes before him say "it's amazing how many people will erroneously say, not red"? |
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on Mar 12th, 2008, 4:54pm, Sir Col wrote:| I think JiNbOtAk was referring to my terrible attempt at humour: "I'll start the ball rolling..." |
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I was referring to Sir Col's "ball-rolling" statement. Of course, towr, you rock too, I was just encouraging Sir Col to be continue with his puns filled posts.
Interestingly, is black and white considered as colours ? Why, or why not ?
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towr
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #22 on: Mar 13th, 2008, 2:36am » |
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on Mar 12th, 2008, 4:54pm, Sir Col wrote:| towr, suppose that an object's pigmentation alters depending on temperature. Consequently its colour would appear to change. In other words, altering the environmental conditions of the object changes its colour. |
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Only because the altering of the environment translates into an alteration of the ball itself in this case. If its temperature didn't change, then it's pigmentation wouldn't change.
Quote:| Similarly by altering the amount of light, we reduce the capacity of the ball to demonstrate its "ability" to absorb all colours of the spectrum except for red. In fact, the "red" ball is now exhibiting all the properties of a "black" ball. That is, no visible light reflects from it all in a dark room. So could we still say that a red ball is red if it behaves precisely like a black ball under the same conditions? |
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If that were the case under all conditions, rather then a very small subset, yes. Under some conditions a lead ball and a gold ball will be indistinguishable, that doesn't mean that lead and gold are the same under those circumstances; they remain physically different. You can bring them, in theory, under conditions where you can distinguish them.
It comes down to what it means to be red; if it's the ability to absorb the non-red colours from the spectrum and reflecting red; then this ability hasn't changed just because there isn't any light. Just like my ability to breath isn't gone when I hold my breath for a minute.
If it lies in the actual, current reflecting/absorbing of photons, then there are some very peculiar problems to deal with. Because, for one, light is quantized, and so most of the time an object doesn't interact with a photon at all, even under perfect 'visible' conditions.
And there may be further options.
Quote:| To put it slightly differently, the notion of colour is the perceived capacity of an object to absorb/reflect visible light. |
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Is it? If I don't look at the ball, and so don't perceive it's capacity, does that make it black? Or if I and a friend look at the ball through different coloured glasses and thus perceive a different capacity for absorption/reflection, does it mean the ball both is and isn't red?
Does a tree falling in the forest without anyone around to hear it make a sound?
Quote:| Deny visible light to the object and we no longer have a red ball as it is no longer reflecting red visible light. |
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Well, it usually doesn't anyway. The time spent reflecting is far outweighed by the time not reflecting, even under the brightest conditions.
Quote:| I agree that the pigmentation and capacity to absorb/reflect has not changed, but in terms of how it is perceived, in a darkened room, it is no more red than it is black; that is, it reflect no light at all. |
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It seems no more red than black; but that's a perception made under non-optimal conditions. It makes more sense, in my not always equally humble opinion, to consider the colour of an object to be its colour as perceived under (sufficiently) optimal conditions (all other things being equal). This way it doesn't depend on whether or not at the moment someone is looking at the object in question, or whether a photon happens to be reflected at the moment. Making it more a property of the object than of chance (although the issue of different people classifying the colour differently remains; it might be more orange than red to some people, even if they're not colour blind in any way (which would be a non-optimal condition)).
Is it equivalent to say "the ball is red" and "the ball seems red"? Can one be mistaken about the colour of an object. Is colour a property of an object?
Are we considering
"What is the colour of a red ball in a black, lightless, non-illuminated room ?"
or
"What will the colour seem to be of a ball that under ideal conditions seems red, in a black, lightless, non-illuminated room ?"
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JiNbOtAk
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #23 on: Mar 13th, 2008, 3:00am » |
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on Mar 13th, 2008, 2:36am, towr wrote:| Does a tree falling in the forest without anyone around to hear it make a sound? |
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Schucks, that was going to be my next question.
It's amazing how many people will erroneously say, yes.
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Grimbal
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Re: Black black black. Everywhere!
« Reply #24 on: Mar 13th, 2008, 3:10am » |
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If JiNbOtAk is sitting in front of his computer but I don't see him, does he still exist?
It's amazing how many people will erroneously say yes.
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