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Topic: Three Notes (Read 1626 times) |
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K Sengupta
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Three Notes
« on: Apr 16th, 2006, 1:05am » |
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“Ms X is being stalked” Sergeant Y announced as detective Z handed him a cup of coffee.
“ The movie star?” Z enquired.
“ Yes. This note was found under her windshield wiper this morning.” Sergeant Y said. He handed him a red heart-shaped piece of construction paper. The edges were jagged and wrinkled as if cut by a young child. The smeared paint was in blue ink. “Be my valentine or hearts will be broken” the note said. It was unsigned.
“ This is the third note with a veiled threat” Sergeant Y explained “ Ms.X has been getting phone calls too. The caller does not say anything, just listens”.
“Have you been able to trace the calls?” the detective asked.
“Yes, we have. They come from an apartment where two young college men live.” Sergeant Y responded.
“Then you have your suspects” detective Z said.
“I don’t think they are in it together. They could easily alibi for each other, but they don’t. Each one said the other was alone in the apartment when the calls were made. We can’t tell who it was from what they tell us. It looks as if one was going out and the other coming in about the time of each call. It could be either of them. I hope our handwriting expert will be able to tell us which one wrote the note.”
“I don’t think we’ll need our expert to figure that out” detective Z said,” but, of course, an expert can verify our conclusion”
How did detective think he could tell who wrote the note?
Source : Puzzle Magazine
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Icarus
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #1 on: Apr 16th, 2006, 11:44am » |
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Detective Z suspects one of the two young men to be a "sinister" fellow. The note hints that someone "sinister" was its author.
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K Sengupta
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #2 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 10:35pm » |
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Hints:
(i) One of the terms utilised in consonance with Icarus' post corresponds to a ponter towards the actual answer.
(ii) Also refer to clues given in lines 5-7 corresponding to the problem body.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2006, 11:06pm by K Sengupta » |
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Grimbal
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #3 on: Apr 21st, 2006, 1:40am » |
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It is less of a coincidence if the calls were always made just after someone left rather than just before somone arrived. I would say that whenever the one arriving saw the other leave, he made a phone call, knowing he could later pretend the other did it.
Still, this doesn't tell who wrote the note. It sounds rather stupid to ask "be my valentine" anonymously. This contrasts with the clever timing of the phone calls. So, one of them wrote the note, the other did the phone calls.
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Icarus
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #4 on: Apr 21st, 2006, 3:47pm » |
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A check of word origins for the word sinister will give you my answer. If it is correct, then I would say the key clue is earlier - in particular, the word smeared.
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zelyoni
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #5 on: Apr 22nd, 2006, 9:20am » |
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check for paint on the guys hands?
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K Sengupta
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #6 on: May 3rd, 2006, 12:23am » |
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Quote:| On Apr 22nd, 2006, 9:20am, Icarus wrote: |
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Quote:| A check of word origins for the word sinister will give you my answer |
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In terms of Icarus’ post , the term “ sinister” gives away the solution to the problem under reference.
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/sinister.html defines “sinister“ as “on left part of shield: on the left side of a heraldic shield as seen by the holder”; which inter-alia suggests left-handedness in the context of the problem under reference.
In consonance with provisions of the problem, it is known that the ink was smeared. This very often happens when a left handed person writes with his hand twisted above the writing. The jagged edge of the paper also suggests left-handedness, since most scissors are designed for right-handed persons and tend to be difficult for left-handed persons to use. Detective Z only has to see which of the roommates is left-handed.
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Icarus
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #7 on: May 3rd, 2006, 6:09pm » |
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No more hiding. If you don't want to see the answer, you shouldn't be reading this far down anyhow.
The word "sinister" actually derives from the latin (I believe) for "left hand". Similarly, "dextrous" derives from the latin for "right hand". People used to think of anyone who favored their left hand over their right as being suspicious and untrustworthy. And in a right-handed society, lefties were always more clumsy with the tools, so being right-handed became associated with being more capable with one's hands.
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JiNbOtAk
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #8 on: May 3rd, 2006, 8:55pm » |
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What if both are left-handed ?
Or either one is ambidexterous, pretending to favour one hand for the other ?
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Icarus
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #9 on: May 4th, 2006, 8:04pm » |
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These are possibilities, but Detective Z knows that neither is likely, so he felt reasonably safe in predicting that they could get their man by seeing which was a lefty. Note that all they are doing here is selecting a suspect. Once they figure out who, they can look for harder evidence they can use to arrest him.
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DewiMorgan
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Even in the case where one were lefthanded, this is also no clear sign that the other is not: they both may well be, as lefthanded people tend to cluster in careers.
Even if it were, I'd then disagree (as a lefthanded person) with this detective.
While the evidence is there that the message was written with the left hand, it is clear that it was written (and cut) with the left hand of a righthanded person, attempting to frame a lefthanded person.
A lefthanded person of university age and education will be well aware of the smudging problem, and will have developed ways to avoid it (writing slowly, special inks, holding the pen in a different way, quickdrying paper, etc: but most of all, JUST BEING CAREFUL). They would definitely do this on a love letter: this is unquestionable, it would be far too deeply ingrained for them to smudge an important letter.
When cutting out a heart shape for a loveletter, you would NOT make a cruddy job of it, except deliberately. There is no way a grown man would cut like a child unless he was cutting with his off hand.
So, unless the detective is introduced as bigoted and uninformed, we've no reason to think that he would be foolish enough to believe the letter to have been written by someone habitually lefthanded.
There is, however, fairly good evidence in the puzzle about who is calling. Note that all calls were made when one was leaving and one entering.
There are thus two possibilities:
1) They hate eachother. If one comes in, the other tends to leave. Knowing this, the perpetrator could enter and call any time they liked; or, they both have very strict schedules. Without this, it would be very difficult to enter the building within a few minutes of the other leaving.
2) There is some method (a long flight of stairs, a very regular schedule) by which the person in the room can tell that the opposite number will arrive shortly, but still has time to call the victim.
A strict schedule isn't enough: the perpetrator has to be able to guarantee that the patsy will not be held up for five minutes, will not have popped out to the shops momentarily, not have stopped to talk to someone on the stairs or realised they'd forgotten something and turned round to go get it, and so forth, or they will have an alibi. So I think 2) unlikely.
More, anyone leaving after the other enters will be under suspicion, since they are the ones reacting to cause the "crossover" to happen. This makes the framing more "perfect" from the point of view of the person entering.
So, I finger whichever student always entered the room shortly before the time of the call. I would also guess that that student is righthanded, and the student who departed from the room shortly before the time of the call is lefthanded.
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william11141
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #11 on: Jan 6th, 2007, 3:55pm » |
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Dang, this is hard.... 
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DewiMorgan
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Not really. Left-handedness is clearly the "correct" answer: the question just assumes that left-handed people are disabled or retarded. So it's a question that requires an incorrect assumption to "get" the answer.
It's also logically incorrect. Imagine if you knew that one of the two people actually was disabled. Would there be sufficient evidence in the case so far to presume that his room-mate is not framing him? No, but there's a strong suggestion that he is being framed.
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Icarus
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #13 on: Jan 8th, 2007, 4:11pm » |
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That is certainly reading a lot into this puzzle that is not there! I find no suggestion at all that left-handed people are disabled or retarded. First of all, the puzzle is only about one left-handed person, not all of them, and secondly, while this fellow is apparently unbalanced, there is nothing to suggest that he suffers from any other problem.
The clues apply to lefties not because of disability, but because they have to live in a right-handed world. The smeared writing suggests a left-handed writers because writing in the western world is done from left to right. Right-handed people have their hands leading the pen, passing over clean paper. Left-handed people have their hands tailing the pen, passing over the still-wet ink. The ragged cutting suggests the problems a lefty has with right-handed scissors (almost all scissors are right-handed). Right-handed scissors are designed so that the natural positioning of the hand forces the blades against each other. When used left-handed, instead your hand pushes the blades apart. In order to cut, you have pull them together in a very awkward motion. (I'm right-handed, but I've had occasion to cut left-handed before, and I've also used left-handed scissors.)
And, as I've said before, the detective is only identifying his suspect here, not making the arrest.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2007, 4:13pm by Icarus » |
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DewiMorgan
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Quote:| The smeared writing suggests a left-handed writer" |
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No, it absolutely does not, and I have explained this at length in my first post to this thread: you may have missed this, if so, please reread.
It may suggest this *to a naïve righthanded person*, but not, one would hope, to someone trained in analysis of facts.
AFAIK you're neither naïve nor bigoted, Icarus, and I am astonished that you could believe what you wrote. I can only imagine that you wrote it before your morning coffee or something.
The problems you describe are really well known to lefties. They are, as I said, ingrained into us (why on earth did you describe them in detail to me? Do you think I might not know?). It is inconceivable that the average lefthanded adult (let alone one with a university education, which requires literacy) would make any more a shoddy job of something important than the average righthanded person. However, a left- or righthanded person cutting with his off hand will usually make a mess.
Think about it. You cannot truly believe that 8 to 15% of the adult population is incapable of operating a pen and scissors?
I'll grant you that Bush, Clinton, Ross-Perot, Reagan, Rockefeller and Truman may all have been unable to even sign their name without smudging, but do you really think that all these 1400+ other well-known lefties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_left-handed_people are so incompetent that they can't neatly sign an autograph?
Maybe Matt Groening's work looks "scruffy", but did he, or other lefthanded artists like Escher, Dührer, Picasso, Michaelangelo, Raphael, or Leonardo (no, not the turtles) ever smudge their art while signing it? No, because they actually knew how to use a writing instrument, just like every other literate adult on the planet, including all the lefthanded ones.
If such a twisted view of the world were correct, is it not strange that manuscripts by pre-typewriter lefties like "War and Peace", "Waiting for Godot", "Alice in Wonderland", "Faust", "The Time Machine" could ever have made it to press without being sent back as "too smudged!"?
If this were a real situation, it would be clear that the guilty party wrote and cut with their off hand in an effort to make their work look less like their own. Since the "X-handed make messy stuff" bigotry is confined to righthanded people, the guilty one is most likely to be the righthanded person, if there is a choice.
Of course the questioner doesn't expect that, because the question requires naïveté to get the "right" answer.
Let me rephrase the question for you, so that you can see the requirement for this bigotry-from-ignorance.
Quote:A face-recognition system was set up in a New York government office, which tracked all three employees (Maria the Greek, Bjørn the Icelander, and Mukanda the Kenyan) by the colour of their faces and other biometrics, so that it could correctly direct phone calls, etc. For security, it is also set up to trigger an alarm if there is a face-covering.
The day after the holidays, in which everyone had returned to their homeland, Mary was killed, by someone who'd let themselves in with one of the three impossible-to-copy office keys without triggering the alarm. However, the facetracker had been unable to recognise the face of the assailant. Mary had her key on her when she died, and the attacker locked the door on the way out, so it wasn't hers that was used.
The next day, the officer in charge was informed that Bjørn and Mukanda had both been brought in for questioning, after letting themselves in with their own keys. He replied "we hardly need to question them, I know which one is guilty." Why does he make this assertion? And why is he naïve to do so? |
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| « Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2007, 3:22pm by DewiMorgan » |
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Icarus
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #15 on: Jan 12th, 2007, 3:20pm » |
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Mr Morgan, I am sorry that you feel this great need to be offended by this. But what I said is true. Your problem here is your problem. You have CHOSEN to interpret matters in a far different manner than the one in which they were offered, and in which they were explained. You have done this because of some obscene desire to view yourself as a minority oppressed by "naive righthanded persons". Because of this desire, you have decided to be offensive, and I do not appreciate it.
I NEVER SAID THAT ALL LEFT HANDED PEOPLE ARE "INCAPABLE OF OPERATING A PEN OR SCISSORS". Please get that into your head! I did not say it. I did not imply it. I specifically said otherwise! But you were too busy being upset to pay any attention to that.
So let me say again, since you have decided to ignore the first time: THIS RIDDLE IS NOT ABOUT ALL LEFT HANDED PEOPLE. It is about a single left handed person, and one who is clearly unbalanced. It is you, not me, who is making an unwarranted generalization here. I am sorry to have to report to you that YES, there are lefties who get to college age who screw up and smear their writing, and get ragged when cutting with right-handed scissors. They do this when, because of strain or tiredness, they do not pay appropriate attention to the task. Do not tell me about how this does not occur! I know better, as I have witnessed it.
The subject of this riddle is a clearly deranged man. Deranged people are often sloppy when under the thrall of their derangement.
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DewiMorgan
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Illogic and ignorance offend me more than bigotry. The "correct" answer to this is logically correct on the surface but logically wrong on further investigation.
Your justification that it is about an individual fails: the riddle relies on a generalisation: "in a group of two people where one is lefthanded, and one is a stalker with smudged writing who can't handle scissors, the two will most likely be one and the same person."
Your justification "Deranged people are often sloppy" also fails: you presume data [that the person is insane, and is made sloppy in a way in which righthanded people are unlikely to be, rather than the more common response of becoming overly fastidious about the object of his obsession] that is not given. In fact counterevidence is given, since it wasn't obvious which was the culprit. If he were that obviously insane, there would be outward gibberings.
A person working with his off hand WILL be sloppy when writing a love letter, a person working with his good hand will NOT. This applies even if they are lefthanded, or if they are frothing with insanity, which wasn't the case in the problem.
Anyway, any progress on the rephrased riddle? As a hint, it hinges on the (unstated) fact that Bjørn is probably white, and Mukanda is probably black. But that assumption is fairly safe, statistically speaking, and is a red herring. It's the OTHER unstated assumption that makes the officer wrong.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2007, 6:10pm by DewiMorgan » |
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towr
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #17 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 7:09am » |
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on Jan 12th, 2007, 10:20am, DewiMorgan wrote:| Maybe Matt Groening's work looks "scruffy", but did he, or other lefthanded artists like Escher, Dührer, Picasso, Michaelangelo, Raphael, or Leonardo (no, not the turtles) ever smudge their art while signing it? No, because they actually knew how to use a writing instrument, just like every other literate adult on the planet, including all the lefthanded ones. |
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I have heard it suggested that Leonardo wrote most of his notes mirrored because that was easier for writing due to his lefthandedness.
In any case, the slant of one's writing, usually suggests handedness. Even if it's just as neat as anything else.
Of course, that hardly even cuts it as circumstantial evidence.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2007, 7:14am by towr » |
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Icarus
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #18 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 6:55pm » |
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on Jan 12th, 2007, 6:05pm, DewiMorgan wrote:| Your justification that it is about an individual fails: the riddle relies on a generalisation: "in a group of two people where one is lefthanded, and one is a stalker with smudged writing who can't handle scissors, the two will most likely be one and the same person." |
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It is given in the riddle that the stalker was sloppy in creating his notes. The particular forms of sloppiness are things that show up when a left-hander is sloppy. Right-handers tend to be sloppy in other ways - particularly with the smeared writing.
on Jan 12th, 2007, 6:05pm, DewiMorgan wrote:| Your justification "Deranged people are often sloppy" also fails: you presume data [that the person is insane, and is made sloppy in a way in which righthanded people are unlikely to be, rather than the more common response of becoming overly fastidious about the object of his obsession] that is not given. In fact counterevidence is given, since it wasn't obvious which was the culprit. If he were that obviously insane, there would be outward gibberings. |
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First, "deranged" and "insane" are not equivalent. Second, most people fitting either category do not "gibber" or "froth". Third, for the sort of derangement involved here, become sloppy is by far the more common behavior. A year or two ago, a serial killer in my area who had been active in the 70's and 80's was captured. This man sent notes to the media and police taunting them. The notes were crude things with numerous grammatical errors, though their main point was to brag about how much smarter he was than the police. When the man was captured, he was found to be a well-educated and respected "family man". Those who knew him, including his wife and kids, had no hint of his derangement. He was in fact quite capable of writing better than he did. Interviews show that he was not trying to hide anything with the errors. He simply was unable to communicate clearly when taken with his obsession. His case is not alone. This is a very common situation with the deranged.
on Jan 12th, 2007, 6:05pm, DewiMorgan wrote:| A person working with his off hand WILL be sloppy when writing a love letter, a person working with his good hand will NOT. |
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Actually, very few people are capable of writing legibly with their off-hand. It only says the writing was smeared, not crooked and practically illegible. And a vast array of my experience with both left and right handed people disagrees with the second half of your statement.
I still stand by my belief that the evidence stated is indicative of a left-handed culprit. (This is the implication "sloppy cutting & smeared writing indicates left handed" and not the converse implication "left handed indicates sloppy cutting & smeared writing" that you have complained about.) And note that by "indicates", I do not mean "proves", but just that it is more likely to be a lefty than a righty. Nor does the riddle say that the detective believes his evidence is proof. He is only selecting a "prime suspect", not preparing an arrest.
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CowsRUs
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #19 on: Feb 8th, 2007, 3:42pm » |
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Seargant Y
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Ghost Sniper
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #20 on: Feb 8th, 2007, 4:55pm » |
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Cowsrus, you have responded to just about all of the threads on the site. I think it's pretty funny of you to do that. 
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CowsRUs
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #21 on: Feb 8th, 2007, 5:00pm » |
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Yea, that's what you do if you have no life... OOH! PWNED MYSELF? 
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JiNbOtAk
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #22 on: Feb 8th, 2007, 7:58pm » |
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Going through the riddle again, makes me realise, nowhere in the riddle did it said that the letter was in English. It could have been in any language, Arabic for example. Since Arabic words are written from right to left, smeared words on the letter would initially suggest a right handed writer, as the left handed writer would not leave smudges. Thus, again, it could be either one of them..
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CowsRUs
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #23 on: Feb 12th, 2007, 8:16am » |
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What if... it was typed on a computer with a crappy printer...
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Three Hands
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Re: Three Notes
« Reply #24 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 7:26am » |
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Is he really the current prime suspect?
Wait, were you referring to him this time or not
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