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Topic: Death at Sea (Read 2098 times) |
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maryl
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A man sitting on a park bench reads a newspaper article headlined "Death at Sea" and knows a murder has been committed.
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BNC
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #1 on: Oct 19th, 2003, 11:21am » |
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Are we supposed to ask questions here?
If so, then: Was there any connection / relation between the man reading the newspaper and the dead person?
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maryl
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There was a connection, but it wasn't with the dead person.
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BNC
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #3 on: Oct 19th, 2003, 1:11pm » |
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Any details about the "death at sea" story?
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maryl
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on Oct 19th, 2003, 1:11pm, BNC wrote:| Any details about the "death at sea" story? |
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Just the name of the dead person.
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BNC
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #5 on: Oct 19th, 2003, 2:22pm » |
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The man reading the newspaper ordered a "hit" on the dead person. Upon reading of the death, he realized the contract was done => murder.
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maryl
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No, the man reading the paper was totally innocent.
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BNC
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #7 on: Oct 19th, 2003, 2:34pm » |
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OK, what was the name of the dead person?
Did the man reading paper (MRP) know the name? And if yes, how?
Does the MRP have a suspect? Who? And why? (That's probably the question... you don't have to answer).
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towr
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #8 on: Oct 19th, 2003, 2:47pm » |
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was the dead person afraid of the sea (before he died  ) ?
(which would make it unlikely he was there for fun, and thus probably forced to go there, something MRP might know)
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maryl
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on Oct 19th, 2003, 2:34pm, BNC wrote:OK, what was the name of the dead person?
Did the man reading paper (MRP) know the name? And if yes, how?
Does the MRP have a suspect? Who? And why? (That's probably the question... you don't have to answer). |
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1. The actual name doesn't matter to you or me, let's call it Smith or Schmuck for that matter.
2. Yes, thru a mutual acquaintance-someone that met him, and knew the dead person.
3. Yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt.-well pretty much beyond a shadow of a doubt-you never know what lawyers can pull out of their hats these days. Can't say how.
Towr, the deceased didn't have any problem with water (at least not upto that point).
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Speaker
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #10 on: Oct 19th, 2003, 6:13pm » |
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Maybe the person who was killed was found at sea, but the people he was travelling with arrived home safely. Therefore, the people, or person he was travelling with did him in. For instance, he left Heathrow airport in a private airplane, and the murderer threw him out over the sea, where he died. The man reading the newspaper saw the people get on the airplane, so he knew that the only way for the deadman to have been found at sea required foul play by one of the other passengers.
Or maybe better than an airplane, a dirigible which would allow the suspects to wander around the ship like in an Agatha Christie novel.
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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
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BNC
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #11 on: Oct 19th, 2003, 11:21pm » |
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A few wild guesses (based on the assumption of a non-too-perfect crime):
1. MRP is a police officer. He heard from one of his informers that <Place criminal name here> was about to kill Smith.
2. MRP is the insurance agent of Smith's wife. She just increased his life insurance policy.
3. MRP is Smith's husdband's (gota keep it balanced!) divorce lawyer. He heard him saying "No way I'm gonna let this b&^%$ take half of my stuff!".
4. Smith is a highschool teacher. MRP is a social worker, and was working with one of Smith's students who is very violent, and hated Smith. Smith died on a school field-day.
And finally, maybe the most obvious:
5. The article reads: Death At Sea. Smith, <Insert description of Smith> murdered today...
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maryl
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Well, the man on the bench was a certain type of agent, who did indeed sell something to someone.
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BNC
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #13 on: Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:06am » |
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Maryl, can you answer this without revealing too much?
The "someone" to whom MRP sold the "something" was:
A. Smith
B. Smith's husdband / wife
C. Smith's business associate
D. All of the above
E. None of the above
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| « Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:17am by BNC » |
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Speaker
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #14 on: Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:34am » |
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The man was a sales agent, and a dishonest one at that. He had sold a boat that was not seaworthy to some people. They trusted MRP's professional integrity and sailed trustingly into the sunset. Little did they know that it would be their last for the boat had no lifeboat or other safety equipment and was not seaworthy for reasons difficult to explain here but which would be obvious to a professional boat seller.
So, MRP knew that the courts would find him guilty of professional negligence resulting in death, further compounded by MRP's having earned a substantial profit on the deal and witnesses having seen him bragging about what a smooth talker he was and the stupidity of the poor dead sailors resulting in the courts sentencing him to be hung for murder.
Or something like that.
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wowbagger
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #15 on: Oct 22nd, 2003, 4:19am » |
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Speaker, your interesting (and possibly realistic ) scenario wouldn't be a murder, as you said yourself.
How about this: MRP sold a harpoon or a crossbow to someone. This someone then killed Smith, who was trying to become the first person to circumnavigate the world in a rubber dinghy.
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Icarus
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #16 on: Oct 22nd, 2003, 8:17pm » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2003, 4:19am, wowbagger wrote:| Speaker, your interesting (and possibly realistic ) scenario wouldn't be a murder, as you said yourself. |
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Perhaps your legal system is different, but in the U.S., this would count as at least 3rd degree murder - also called manslaughter. Depending on the circumstances, it could even be considered 2nd degree murder.
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wowbagger
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #17 on: Oct 23rd, 2003, 7:38am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2003, 8:17pm, Icarus wrote:| Perhaps your legal system is different, but in the U.S., this would count as at least 3rd degree murder - also called manslaughter. Depending on the circumstances, it could even be considered 2nd degree murder. |
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Hooray, a discussion on legal systems! 
I admit that I don't know very much about your legal system and its various degrees of murder. The OALD entry of manslaughter seems to fit, although I'm not sure.
In Germany, we have (alas) "Mord", "Totschlag" (literally: "dead-hit") and "fahrlässige Tötung" (negligent killing). Mord and Totschlag are similar, but different. I'm not versed in our legal system well enough to judge, but I'll try to give you an idea.
Both Mord and Totschlag occur with the intent of the criminal, meaning they know and want it to happen. In contrast to this, fahrlässige Tötung is something happening by neglect or mistake, through an oversight.
Now for the interesting part: De facto, Mord is Totschlag with special circumstances. Among these are lust to kill, a base motive (vindictiveness, uncontrolled selfishness, possibly jealousy (depends)), cattiness (exploiting the unsuspicion or defencelessness of the victim; not sure about the translation), killing to commit a further crime or to conceal a crime.
Regarding the punishment: For Mord you get a lifelong sentence. If the court detects a special cruelty, you can get out on parole only after 15 years if I'm not mistaken. For Totschlag you get at least five years. For fahrlässige Tötung you get up to five years or a fine.
Actually, there are even more peculiarities, like a less grave Totschlag (1 to 10 years) if you were angered by the victim maltreating or insulting you or a relative. And then there's killing somebody on demand, yielding from 6 months to 5 years of prison. (The punishments could be out of date.)
Having said all that, I think Speaker's sales agent wouldn't be a murderer over here, but I'm not a lawyer (fortunately).
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| « Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2003, 7:41am by wowbagger » |
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cha-cha_dickens
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #18 on: Oct 23rd, 2003, 2:23pm » |
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I've heard this before, and as I remember...
The MRP is a travel agent. He sold cruise tickets for two to a man, but the weird thing is, his ticket was a two-way, and hers was a one- way. He realizes what has happened immediately.
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maryl
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Ya, an old Hitchcock classic. By the way, they strongly suggest always buying your wife a round-trip ticket because of it.
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Icarus
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #20 on: Oct 23rd, 2003, 5:02pm » |
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on Oct 23rd, 2003, 7:38am, wowbagger wrote:| Hooray, a discussion on legal systems! |
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Similar, but different from our system as well. Here in the states, each state has its own statutes, so what it true in Kansas may not be true in New York (and sane people don't even mention California ). But generally, 1st degree murder is "premeditated". This means that the killer decided to kill before - possibly just before - the actual deed. 2nd degree murder is considered intentional as well, but not having been decided upon before it occurs. This is a very slippery definition. I think most 2nd degree murder convictions come out because the jury is sure that the guy did it, but not completely convinced that it was intentional (not the way the system is supposed to work, but the way it usually does). 3rd degree murder, or manslaughter, seems to be a match for your "fahrlässige Tötung". Someone was criminally negligent and it lead to a death. The only difference is that in the US, this is still called murder. The penalty is about the same however.
It has been my misfortune to be a juror for a murder trial. Since the murder in question was an obvious gang assasination, there was not worry about what degree of murder it was. The only question to be answered was whether or not the defendent was the one who did it.
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BNC
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #21 on: Oct 24th, 2003, 12:39am » |
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That the MRP knew it was a murder just by reading about it implies non-perfect crime.
But this is one stupid criminal!
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towr
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #22 on: Oct 24th, 2003, 1:59am » |
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on Oct 24th, 2003, 12:39am, BNC wrote:| But this is one stupid criminal! |
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Despite it being called 'premeditated murder', it doesn't actually mean they think it through very well.. 
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wowbagger
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #23 on: Oct 24th, 2003, 10:12am » |
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on Oct 23rd, 2003, 5:02pm, Icarus wrote:| Here in the states, each state has its own statutes, so what it true in Kansas may not be true in New York (and sane people don't even mention California ). |
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I wonder whether some clever criminals invite their future victim on a vacation so as to minimise the punishment?
Quote:| But generally, 1st degree murder is "premeditated". This means that the killer decided to kill before - possibly just before - the actual deed. 2nd degree murder is considered intentional as well, but not having been decided upon before it occurs. This is a very slippery definition. |
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That sounds strange. How can the murder be intentional, but the murderer didn't decide upon it before it occurs? Does he decide afterwards?  Weird...
Quote:| It has been my misfortune to be a juror for a murder trial. |
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I don't envy you that experience. Are US citizens obligated to accept being appointed juror?
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Icarus
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Re: Death at Sea
« Reply #24 on: Oct 24th, 2003, 10:14am » |
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Murderers often aren't the brightest of people. News Of The Weird last week had an account of a guy who dragged a body out of his apartment and left it on the lawn, then went back in, got a mop, and started mopping up the blood trail back into his apartment. The problem was, all this was done in broad daylight in front of witnesses.
Be thankful -- I'd rather have dumb criminals than smart ones!
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"Pi goes on and on and on ...
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I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
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