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Topic: Zero? (Read 8710 times) |
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kyle1080
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Posts: 6
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Prove or disprove that all solutions of x"+|x'|x'+x3=0 go to zero as t->\infinity.
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Michael Dagg
Senior Riddler
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 13th, 2009, 4:51pm » |
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Hint: Rewrite the ODE in terms of phase plane variables so that
it can be integrated with respect to x . Pick a line segment
with endpoints lying along some trajectory and then argue that
the path of the function g(x,y) = C (constant) obtained by
integration closes in on the origin whereby the trajectory
crosses g(x,y) successively.
Since the trajectory is arbitrary you're done.
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Michael Dagg
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kyle1080
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Posts: 6
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 14th, 2009, 3:36pm » |
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Don't follow. Differentiation is with respect to t not x. Problem is not that simple.
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Michael Dagg
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 15th, 2009, 6:59am » |
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Note that
x" = d^2/dt^2[x] = 1/2*d/dx[(x')^2] .
Then
1/2*d/dx[(x')^2] + x^3 = -|x'|x'
but in the phase plane dx = x' dt = y dt , that is, y = dx/dt = x'
and so
1/2*d/dx[y^2] + x^3 = -|y|y .
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Michael Dagg
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kyle1080
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Posts: 6
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 15th, 2009, 10:45am » |
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Relation for x'' is a surprise. I still don't get it. There is no function in the problem having the independent variable x, unless you use x3 as function, like f(x)=x3.
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diemert
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 21st, 2009, 11:01am » |
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OR x=0
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Michael Dagg
Senior Riddler
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 23rd, 2009, 8:52am » |
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> OR x=0
True, but the trivial solution is not representive of
all solutions.
> There is no function in the problem having the
> independent variable x, unless you use x3 as
> function, like f(x)=x3.
Not necessary. You may want to review differentiation
and integration.
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Michael Dagg
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kyle1080
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 25th, 2009, 10:32am » |
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That is a setback. Do you know what your are talking about? The right side of the equation doesn't integrate with respect to x as far I can see and I don't see how to relate an expression that does with one that doesn't.
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SMQ
wu::riddles Moderator
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 25th, 2009, 10:38am » |
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on Nov 25th, 2009, 10:32am, kyle1080 wrote:| [...] Do you know what your are talking about? [...] |
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While I haven't followed the details of this thread, it has been my experience that yes, Michael Dagg knows what he's talking about--and better than most.
--SMQ
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--SMQ
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ThudnBlunder
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The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 25th, 2009, 1:27pm » |
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Probably Kyle has not studied phase planes yet.
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THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
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kyle1080
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 25th, 2009, 5:28pm » |
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Hello! I am friendly and sincere. I wasn't implying anything specific. Please don't take what I said out of context. Yes, I know about the phase plane but I don't understand the integration and what was said for the conclusion. I am listening.
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Aryabhatta
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Re: Zero?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 21st, 2009, 11:20pm » |
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on Nov 25th, 2009, 5:28pm, kyle1080 wrote:| Hello! I am friendly and sincere. I wasn't implying anything specific. Please don't take what I said out of context. Yes, I know about the phase plane but I don't understand the integration and what was said for the conclusion. I am listening. |
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The first sentence of Michael Dagg's hint says:
Rewrite the ODE in terms of phase plane variables so that it can be integrated with respect to x.
Did you manage to get past this or are you stuck at this point?
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