Author |
Topic: White to Play and Win (I) (Read 587 times) |
|
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
Gender: 
Posts: 4489
|
This is a standard chess puzzle.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2003, 2:48am by ThudnBlunder » |
 IP Logged |
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
|
|
|
Lightboxes
Full Member
Gender:
Posts: 203
|
 |
Re: White to Play and Win
« Reply #1 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 1:41am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
SHEESH!
Me and my cousing played this one out and WE BOTH came to the conclusion that black would win no matter what white does (white to move). Now I just realized that (hint)
::White can force a dilemma for black. In other words, damned if you do, and damned if you don't. ::
Added:
GEEZ LUIZ!!!
White to move.
Now I just realized that I was wrong again! 
::White "forces" a draw first, then black finishes the force and forces the draw.::
*SIGH!*
I'm getting tired of modifing this so I'll just leave it to the other members of this forum to find out the final solution. I'm not sure, yet, who wins because it depends on what
::white decides to do with the queen.::
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2003, 1:56am by Lightboxes » |
IP Logged |
A job is not worth doing unless it's worth doing well.
|
|
|
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Some people are average, some are just mean.
Gender:
Posts: 13730
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win
« Reply #2 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 2:18am » |
Quote Modify
|
Well, as the title says, white is to win. So I assume white will, indeed, win.
It's not a question of if, but of how.
|
|
IP Logged |
Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
|
|
|
wowbagger
Uberpuzzler
 
Gender:
Posts: 727
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win
« Reply #3 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 7:57am » |
Quote Modify
|
One quickly realises that White's h-pawn and Black's a-pawn need equally many moves to promote. This is not a problem for White as long as Black's pawn remains on file a. If, however, we let Black capture on b5, he can play b1Q directly following h8Q. After this, White has no forced win. Therefore, we play 1. b6+ in order to prevent Black from promoting on file b.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2003, 8:00am by wowbagger » |
IP Logged |
"You're a jerk, <your surname>!"
|
|
|
Lightboxes' Clone
Guest
|
The real problem I see is that the black king...
::doesn't have to capture the pawn. If he/she plays carefully, then it can be a draw IF white's queen captures black's queen::
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
wowbagger
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 727
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win
« Reply #5 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 8:26am » |
Quote Modify
|
You're right, Lightboxes' Clone. After 1. b6+ Kb8, the fact that White promotes first and can capture Black's queen isn't of any help.
Maybe I'll think about it a little more this evening. For now, it's time to go home.
|
|
IP Logged |
"You're a jerk, <your surname>!"
|
|
|
Mike_V
Junior Member
Gender:
Posts: 60
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win
« Reply #6 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 7:03pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Well, white could always promote to a bishop instead of a queen. But then I don't see a forced mate after that. (If black just stays in the upper left area, white's stuck.)
|
|
IP Logged |
Don't specify the unspecified.
|
|
|
Mike_V
Junior Member
Gender:
Posts: 60
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win
« Reply #7 on: Oct 2nd, 2003, 1:49am » |
Quote Modify
|
Rather in the stalemate situation mentioned, after both promote to queens, instead of taking the black queen, if white moves queen to g8, I can't think of any good moves black could make to prevent white from moving king to row 7 and uncovering checkmate (or at least mate in 1).
|
|
IP Logged |
Don't specify the unspecified.
|
|
|
Lightboxes' Clone
Guest
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #8 on: Oct 2nd, 2003, 9:25am » |
Quote Modify
 Remove
|
what about a2?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Barukh
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 2276
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #9 on: Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:41am » |
Quote Modify
|
THUDandBLUNDER, are you sure the original position is correct: What's the position of white's King?
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:41am by Barukh » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
unkwoop
Guest
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #10 on: Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:49am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
Sorry, I don't know how to hide the text but I'm thinking the following sequence would probably work?
1. b6+, Kb8
2. h4, a5
3. h5, a4
4. h6, a3
5. h7, a2
6. h8(Q), a1(Q)
7. Qe8, Qa4 (otherwise the revealed checkmate)
8. Qe5+, Ka8
9. Qh8, Qf4
10. Kd7+, Qb8
11. Qa1+, Qa7
12. Qa7++
I may have missed something though!
// text hidden by towr
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:00am by towr » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Some people are average, some are just mean.
Gender:
Posts: 13730
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #11 on: Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:04am » |
Quote Modify
|
To hide text use
[hide] text to be hidden [/hide]
You can find more about hiding text here
|
|
IP Logged |
Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
|
|
|
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
Gender:
Posts: 4489
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #12 on: Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:25am » |
Quote Modify
|
Quote:1. b6+, Kb8
2. h4, a5
3. h5, a4
4. h6, a3
5. h7, a2
6. h8(Q), a1(Q)
7. Qe8, Qa4 (otherwise the revealed checkmate)
|
|
If 7. Qe8 Qg7
|
|
IP Logged |
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
|
|
|
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
Gender:
Posts: 4489
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #13 on: Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:43am » |
Quote Modify
|
Quote:| THUDandBLUNDER, are you sure the original position is correct: |
|
I take it as a compliment to my puzzle-choosing skills when people ask questions like that. 
|
|
IP Logged |
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
|
|
|
unkwoop
Guest
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #14 on: Oct 3rd, 2003, 5:13am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
Knew that I'd miss something!
Well, it seems that I just missed one move, so the adjusted sequence would be:
1. b6+, Kb8
2. h4, a5
3. h5, a4
4. h6, a3
5. h7, a2
6. h8(Q), a1(Q)
7. Qg8, Qa2
8. Qe8, Qa4 (otherwise the revealed checkmate)
9. Qe5+, Ka8
10. Qh8, Qf4
11. Kd7+, Qb8
12. Qa1+, Qa7
13. Qa7++
Thanks for the tip with hiding towr.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.
Gender:
Posts: 4863
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #15 on: Oct 3rd, 2003, 4:34pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:04am, towr wrote:To hide text use
[hide] text to be hidden [/hide]
You can find more about hiding text here
|
|
Now that's slick! All this time explaining about the spaces I put in, and here is a way to show it like it's supposed to be.
|
|
IP Logged |
"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
|
|
|
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Some people are average, some are just mean.
Gender:
Posts: 13730
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #16 on: Oct 4th, 2003, 11:04am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 3rd, 2003, 4:34pm, Icarus wrote:Now that's slick! All this time explaining about the spaces I put in, and here is a way to show it like it's supposed to be.
|
|
Thanks 
Even though it's not the first time I used that trick (I also used it a few times in the thread about the hide tags itself)
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2003, 11:05am by towr » |
IP Logged |
Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
|
|
|
wowbagger
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 727
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #17 on: Oct 5th, 2003, 11:53am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 3rd, 2003, 5:13am, unkwoop wrote:Well, it seems that I just missed one move, so the adjusted sequence would be:
[hidden] |
|
Could it be that your adjusted sequence is the same as the first one?
I think we could just use the same theme, but moving only step to the left with the queen, i.e.,
6. h8Q a1Q
7. Qg8 Qa2
8. Qf8 Qa3 (8. ... Qh2 9. Kd7+ Qb8 etc.)
9. Qe8 Qa4
10. Qe5+ Ka8
11. Qh8 ...
.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2003, 11:59am by wowbagger » |
IP Logged |
"You're a jerk, <your surname>!"
|
|
|
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
Gender:
Posts: 4489
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #18 on: Oct 5th, 2003, 12:18pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Quote:
Oops, if 9. Qe8 Qd6+ and White is in danger of losing.
|
|
IP Logged |
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
|
|
|
unkwoop
Guest
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #19 on: Oct 5th, 2003, 7:05pm » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
wowbagger, no there is an extra move in my ammended sequence! I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that thud would have informed me by now if I was still wrong!
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
Gender:
Posts: 4489
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #20 on: Oct 5th, 2003, 10:55pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Quote:| I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that thud would have informed me by now if I was still wrong! |
|
Yes, unkwoop, your solution is correct.
(Kasparov took 2 minutes and 15 seconds to solve this puzzle using only the diagram.)
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2003, 10:56pm by ThudnBlunder » |
IP Logged |
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
|
|
|
wowbagger
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 727
|
|
Re: White to Play and Win (I)
« Reply #21 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 3:48am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 5th, 2003, 7:05pm, unkwoop wrote:| wowbagger, no there is an extra move in my ammended sequence! I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that thud would have informed me by now if I was still wrong! |
|
Congratulations, unkwoop!
I must have been quite thick to not even notice the different number of the last move...
|
|
IP Logged |
"You're a jerk, <your surname>!"
|
|
|
|
RIDDLES SITE
WRITE MATH!
Home 
Help 
Search 
Members 
Login 
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print