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Topic: Mate in 2 (Read 1284 times) |
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Lightboxes
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #1 on: Sep 20th, 2003, 10:02pm » |
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There is no standard mate-in-2 unless
a) White is playing down the board
OR
b) It is a helpmate
Also, Black had no legal previous move (although this is unimportant in mate puzzles).
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Icarus
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #2 on: Sep 20th, 2003, 10:10pm » |
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Well - I suffer the twin problems of being lousy at chess, and not knowing the standard conventions, but what is wrong with this: white brings his knight up to the right of his king. Black's king will be trapped in his corner, so his only move is to capture the rook with his pawn. Next white moves his bishop up to check the king.
It looks like it works to me.
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william wu
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #3 on: Sep 20th, 2003, 11:04pm » |
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Yeah, that works.
on Sep 20th, 2003, 10:02pm, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
Also, Black had no legal previous move (although this is unimportant in mate puzzles). |
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Couldn't black have had some other pieces which were then taken to get to this stage of the game?
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #4 on: Sep 21st, 2003, 12:39am » |
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Quote:| white brings his knight up to the right of his king. Black's king will be trapped in his corner, so his only move is to capture the rook with his pawn. |
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That would be an unintentional helpmate.
Black can move his pawn two squares (P on f7 to f5) instead of capturing the rook. This prevents checkmate.
Quote:| Well - I suffer the twin problems of being lousy at chess, and not knowing the standard conventions, |
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Icarus, it's nice to know that if I ever want to stump you, all I have to do is post a mate-in-1 chess puzzle. http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_eas y;action=display;num=1064157616;start=0 
Quote:| Couldn't black have had some other pieces which were then taken to get to this stage of the game? |
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It is White to move (presumably). So Black moved last. He hasn't moved his pawn and, while his king may otherwise have captured something on its last move, it has no square to move from because they are both attacked by the White king. But, as I said, I believe the illegal position is not relevant. As it's in Medium, there must be some trick. (I don't think it's worth posting boring run-of-the-mill mate-in-x-moves puzzles in this forum.)
I think I have it:
It is Black to move, not White. He plays P on f7 to f5 (or f6) in order to avoid the mate suggested by Icarus. White plays K to f2 (or Nf3) to avoid being checked by the Black pawn on the next move. Black is now forced to push his pawn again. And White then plays R to h6 mate. If that is it, I don't think it is Medium.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2003, 8:25am by ThudnBlunder » |
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Barukh
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #5 on: Sep 21st, 2003, 5:41am » |
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I tend to agree with THUDandBLUNDER about the trick. Just being more specific about the possibilities:
0. ... f6 1. Nh3 (1. Kf2? Kh2!)
0. ... f5 1. Kf2
0. ... f7:e6 1. Kf2
0. ... K:g1 1. Rf6
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| « Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2003, 5:46am by Barukh » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #6 on: Sep 21st, 2003, 6:25am » |
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I agree with you Barukh, except:
If 0...f6, 1.Nf3 f5 and 2.Rh6 mate (not 1.Nh3? f5 and there is no mate next move).
If 0...fxe6, 1.Nh3 e5 2.Be4 mate (not 1.Kf2? Kh2 and there is no mate next move).
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ThudnBlunder
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Here's another mate-in-2 (should be in Easy):
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Barukh
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #8 on: Sep 21st, 2003, 10:52am » |
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on Sep 21st, 2003, 6:25am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:I agree with you Barukh, except: ...
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Now, I agree with you THUDandBLUNDER, except:
If 0...f6, 1.Nf3 f5 and 2.Rh6 mate - this doesn't work, rook cannot move to h6 through pawn at f6.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2003, 10:52am by Barukh » |
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Icarus
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #9 on: Sep 21st, 2003, 11:20am » |
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on Sep 21st, 2003, 12:39am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:| Icarus, it's nice to know that if I ever want to stump you, all I have to do is post a mate-in-1 chess puzzle. |
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Nah... Those things don't stump me because I ignore them! 
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #10 on: Sep 21st, 2003, 10:27pm » |
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Quote:If 0...f6, 1.Nf3 f5 and 2.Rh6 mate - this doesn't work, rook cannot move to h6 through pawn at f6.
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A pawn which has moved to f5! (1.Nf3 f5)
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Barukh
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #11 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 2:01am » |
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on Sep 21st, 2003, 10:27pm, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
A pawn which has moved to f5! (1.Nf3 f5) |
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Ooops... 
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ThudnBlunder
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Checkmate in 2 moves.
(The last puzzle I posted in this thread is still unsolved.)
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Sir Col
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #13 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 5:43am » |
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Solution to previous puzzle...
::
White plays Qc6, check.
Black can play one of two moves:
(i) Kd8, followed by White Qd7, mate.
(ii) Kf8, followed by White Qa8, mate.
::
I'm still not 100% sure how to use this notation, so I hope that makes sense?
For the last puzzle...
::
White plays Ra7.
Whatever black plays, white then plays Ra8, mate.
::
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 5:45am by Sir Col » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #14 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:03am » |
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Quote:| (ii) Kf8, followed by White Qa8, mate. |
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From f8 Black can move to g7.
Quote:| White plays Ra7. Whatever black plays, white then plays Ra8, mate. |
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Did you consider 0-0 (Black castles kingside)?
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:51am by ThudnBlunder » |
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Sir Col
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #15 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:13am » |
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No! 
I think I should stick with Easy puzzles before I progress to these big boy puzzles. 
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wowbagger
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #16 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:30am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:13am, Sir Col wrote:| I think I should stick with Easy puzzles before I progress to these big boy puzzles. |
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At least you can increase your post count - unlike me.
I saw the problem with your solutions to T&B's puzzles, so I didn't post. Unfortunately, I also found a problem with my first idea for his first problem (1. Qa3), so I'll have to spend more thought on this one sometime.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:31am by wowbagger » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #17 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:56am » |
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Quote:| I think I should stick with Easy puzzles before I progress to these big boy puzzles. |
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The first one belongs in Easy. I only posted it in this thread because it's a Mate in 2.
The second one could be described as Medium, but only just.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 7:01am by ThudnBlunder » |
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Lightboxes
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #18 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 7:47am » |
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For the first one
::Q goes to the bottom left hand corner...
the rest is self explantory except maybe the fact that black can not castle because white is moving which means black has moved last which means he must have moved a piece (the king or rook).
::::
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 7:48am by Lightboxes » |
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Lightboxes
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #19 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:20am » |
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For the second one I've eliminated these general options:
***White sacrificing himself to force a move.
***White playing down the board.
***Black could still castle even if he played last because of his pawn at b6.
***White keeping black from castling because it would take 3 moves and even then, black can stop white at a5.
So if anyone think of something else like white has one teleportation move that black already used...?
So basically, I'm saying that I'm stumped.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:21am by Lightboxes » |
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Sir Col
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #20 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:31am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:56am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
The first one belongs in Easy. I only posted it in this thread because it's a Mate in 2. |
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Thanks! In which case I think we need a new area: Really Easy. 
Lightboxes, I don't see how the queen moving to a1 will help? What if the black moves Kd8? In addition, nothing says it is white's move next, so black could castle on the next move.
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wowbagger
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #21 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:41am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:31am, Sir Col wrote:
Thanks! In which case I think we need a new area: Really Easy.
Lightboxes, I don't see how the queen moving to a1 will help? What if the black moves Kd8? |
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2. Qh8 checkmate
Lightboxes's solution is correct. And I'd say it's easy (although I didn't see it at first glance).
Quote:| In addition, nothing says it is white's move next, so black could castle on the next move. |
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If it's Black's move, he can't castle because he'd illegally castle into check (c8 is under control of the White queen).
If it's White's move, Black's last move must have been with his king or rook, so he can't castle anymore.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:43am by wowbagger » |
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wowbagger
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #22 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:54am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:20am, Lightboxes wrote:So if anyone think of something else like white has one teleportation move that black already used...?
So basically, I'm saying that I'm stumped. |
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I was going to say that I was stumped, too. But I just noticed something I hadn't thought about before: Black's kingside bishop is missing. Considering the possibilities that could have happened, we can rule out the bishop moving (e7, g7 still in place). However, a knight could have captured on f8 without the Black king or rook having to move. Or even the White queen could have captured the Black bishop before being captured herself by the Black queen.
I'm not sure whether this is of much help, but maybe we can somehow deduce that Black must have lost his right to castle.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:55am by wowbagger » |
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Sir Col
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #23 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:05am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:41am, wowbagger wrote:
2. Qh8 checkmate
Lightboxes's solution is correct. And I'd say it's easy (although I didn't see it at first glance).
If it's Black's move, he can't castle because he'd illegally castle into check (c8 is under control of the White queen).
If it's White's move, Black's last move must have been with his king or rook, so he can't castle anymore. |
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Thanks for explaining, wowbagger. I just couldn't see that checkmate.
Nice moves, Lightboxes!
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #24 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:19am » |
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Perhaps a hint is required:
A move is considered legal unless it can be proved that it is illegal.
Not much of a hint, I know, but it's important here.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:48am by ThudnBlunder » |
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