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gotit
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Seven Deadly Sins
« on: Oct 21st, 2009, 2:00am » |
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The cat burglar had been patiently staking out the arch bishop’s extravagant residence when his fortitude finally paid off. His planted microphones had overheard the arch bishop tell his wife that the code to the safe was still based on the seven deadly sins. The burglar’s previous intelligence had told him the code changed every day of the week so the seven sins made sense.
His job wasn’t going to be easy. The arch bishop was a computer nut as well as a religious one who had inherited vast wealth before reaching his high status in the church, so his security was top-notch. He used his wealth to acquire rare religious artifacts that the burglar had been commissioned to relieve him of. And he only had one week left to get the job done.
After finding out about the code based on the seven deadly sins the burglar had planted an electronic recorder near the safe’s access panel that would relay back to him the entered code for that day. The panel had nine buttons numbered from 1 to 9. On the seventh day he should know what the final code would be by process of elimination. That was the day he would have to strike because the arch bishop made sure all his staff attended mass and the house would be empty, protected only by the security system. But he wasn’t worried about electronics.
Day one:
Coded entered: 123
"How did this relate itself to one of the seven sins?" He would have to think about it.
Day two:
Code entered: 1213
"This was getting interesting."
Day three:
Code entered: 1411
Day four:
Code entered: 1421
"What the heck was going on here?"
Day five:
Code entered: 1321
Day six:
Code entered: 2112
The time to act came on day seven, but the burglar was still no closer to cracking the code. He pondered on all he knew about the arch bishop and the previous codes. Finally, “Ah-ha!” and he sprung into action.
What is the final code?
Note: I do not know the answer. So please explain your reasoning as well. 
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towr
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #1 on: Oct 21st, 2009, 2:53am » |
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The first day's code only has 3 digits, is that correct?
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gotit
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #2 on: Oct 21st, 2009, 2:57am » |
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I hope so...actually i copied this one from here
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #3 on: Oct 21st, 2009, 9:42pm » |
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Does anyone know of a number system which uses digits from 1 to 9 only?
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towr
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #4 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 12:38am » |
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on Oct 21st, 2009, 9:42pm, R wrote:| Does anyone know of a number system which uses digits from 1 to 9 only? |
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base 9 + 1 (so 1=0, 2=1 etc; so it goes, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,12,13...)
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #5 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 12:47am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2009, 12:38am, towr wrote:
base 9 + 1 (so 1=0, 2=1 etc; so it goes, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,12,13...) |
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 That's exactly how I formed it, but wanted to know if this is a well-known/used number system, otherwise we can create anything like that.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:41am by R » |
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towr
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #6 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 1:59am » |
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I don't know if it's well-known or used. It's what you get with the alphabet though. A,B,..,Z,AA,AB,..,AZ,BA; and typically A is considered 1 in that case.
But it doesn't seem to be anything like spelling out the seven sins modulo 9. Or like using a phone's letter-to-number approach.
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #7 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 2:12am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2009, 1:59am, towr wrote:
But it doesn't seem to be anything like spelling out the seven sins modulo 9. Or like using a phone's letter-to-number approach. |
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ASCII values doesn't seem to help either.
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gotit
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #8 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 2:23am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2009, 2:12am, R wrote:
ASCII values doesn't seem to help either. |
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Yup..i tried that too..i had a feeling that it has something to do with computers..the archbishop was a computer nut afterall..
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gotit
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #9 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:33am » |
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After few grueling hours,I came up with the following observation,but I am not very sure if I am moving in the right direction.
If we assign a=1, b=2 and so on, the sum of the letters of the seven sins are:
Lust: 72
Greed: 39
Gluttony: 134
Wrath: 70
Sloth: 74
Envy: 66
Pride: 52
Now, only Greed has a odd sum. So I think it should go with 2112, since it is the only one with an even digit at the end.
Two of these, Lust and Pride, have a sum which are divisible by 4. So they can be mapped to 123 and 1213, since these are the only two numbers ending with 3.
The sum for the remaining four sins leave a remainder of 2 when divided by 4 and should go with the remaining 4 codes, of which 3 are given (all ending in 1).
So, I guess the 7th sin would be one of wrath, sloth, gluttony or envy and it should end with 1.
Any thoughts?? 
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| « Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:34am by gotit » |
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #10 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:39am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:33am, gotit wrote:After few grueling hours,I came up with the following observation,but I am not very sure if I am moving in the right direction.
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Yeah, that seems to me the wrong direction.
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Now, only Greed has a odd sum. So I think it should go with 2112, since it is the only one with an even digit at the end.
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If you try to associate the codes with the words like this (using some property odd/even/prime/palindrome) you'll never be able to find an exact sequence of right digits (1242 or 2134) for the 7th word.
Also keep in mind that the Hash function H(word) -> Code has to be such that the codes do not use 0 as one of the basic symbols. It must use digits 1 to 9 only.
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Vondell
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #11 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 5:16pm » |
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solution posted on site where gotit got it from
text->decimal->binary
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #12 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:45pm » |
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huhh!!!
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gotit
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #13 on: Oct 22nd, 2009, 11:40pm » |
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Damn !!!
I did all sorts of things with the binaries of the sums..broke them in groups of two...reversed them..and what not..but that thing never struck me.
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #14 on: Oct 23rd, 2009, 12:10am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2009, 11:40pm, gotit wrote:Damn !!!
I did all sorts of things with the binaries of the sums..broke them in groups of two...reversed them..and what not..but that thing never struck me. |
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There are thousands of functions in maths and thousands of relations in computers. One can choose any two and make such a code. The puzzle statement should logically lead you to it. What's the point if I give you some random set of words and their weird codes!!!
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| « Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2009, 2:20am by R » |
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towr
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #15 on: Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:14am » |
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on Oct 23rd, 2009, 12:10am, R wrote:| There are thousands of functions in maths and thousands of relations in computers. One can choose any two and make such a code. The puzzle statement should logically lead you to it. What's the point if I give you some random set of words and their weird codes!!! |
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Yeah, mind-reading is not a puzzle skill.
It's ok if there are a few steps with multiple choices where you have to guess, but not when there are a near limitless number of choices.
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #16 on: Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:28am » |
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To which section should it be moved? Easy or Hard or errr...?
You guys don't have anything for "Trash!!!"
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| « Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:33am by R » |
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gotit
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #17 on: Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:52am » |
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on Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:28am, R wrote:To which section should it be moved? Easy or Hard or errr...?
You guys don't have anything for "Trash!!!" |
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Or may be create a new section called "Hit and Trial". 
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #18 on: Oct 23rd, 2009, 5:03am » |
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I usually put mind-reading puzzles in easy, because there isn't a separate section for it.
In a way it is hard, of course, but not in the way that the solution is hard to understand.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2009, 5:04am by towr » |
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Prof. Templeton
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #19 on: Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:11pm » |
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It seems to me, that some of are being overly critical in your judgment of this puzzle. The original post tells you that some words are converted to numbers, it also implies those numbers may have a relation to computers. These two facts alone should lead you to the correct numbers in decimal and then in binary, after that it’s a simple matter of matching up the binary numbers to the codes given and observing the relationship between the two sets. The absence of a zero on the keypad gives the reader a clue to this relationship. No "mind-reading" is required. This puzzle is an adaptation of one similar that was created in 2000. The only real difference is the addition of converting words into numbers. Since this is done in one of the simplest ways possible, it doesn’t add, or subtract, sufficiently from the original publishing which was well received by others.
Before expressing your opinions that the puzzle does not meet the high standards you perceive for this forum, you should keep in mind the author did not intend it to be posted here. Instead it was posted in a different forum where the membership is quite different and probably broader.
While I object to some of the above statements deriding this puzzle, I too feel its rightful place should be in the Easy category. It was solved rather timely and with no amount of “mind-reading”. The puzzle was largely solved by someone who used the facts given and a bit of logic and intuition.
Because the puzzle didn't require an expansive knowledge of calculus, or because it didn't meet your expectations, or even if, despite its intended simplicity, the solution eluded you, this is no reason to cast ill favored remarks upon it. Especially if you are a forum moderator, I would expect more from such a person. I would expect a moderator to dissuade others from calling a work that is not their own “Trash”.
This is only my opinion. You may comment on this post, but this is the last word I will say in regard to this particular thread and this puzzle.
Edit: I would also like to note that this puzzle caused others to become members or the forum where it was posted. So maybe some good has come from it.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:26pm by Prof. Templeton » |
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #20 on: Oct 24th, 2009, 2:34am » |
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on Oct 23rd, 2009, 4:11pm, Prof. Templeton wrote:| The original post tells you that some words are converted to numbers, it also implies those numbers may have a relation to computers. These two facts alone should lead you to the correct numbers in decimal and then in binary |
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There are many many ways of converting a word to numbers.
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The absence of a zero on the keypad gives the reader a clue to this relationship.
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Again, the absence of zero can be interpreted in countless ways.
Quote:Before expressing your opinions that the puzzle does not meet the high standards you perceive for this forum, you should keep in mind the author did not intend it to be posted here. Instead it was posted in a different forum where the membership is quite different and probably broader.
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Anyone can express his/her opinion, about a problem put in front of him/her, regardless of the source of the problem (check the existing threads, you'll see other examples). No-one here is partial about that. And I think nobody said anything with dis-respect about your forum.
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Because the puzzle didn't require an expansive knowledge of calculus, or because it didn't meet your expectations, or even if, despite its intended simplicity, the solution eluded you, this is no reason to cast ill favored remarks upon it. Especially if you are a forum moderator, I would expect more from such a person. I would expect a moderator to dissuade others from calling a work that is not their own “Trash”.
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Someone got hurt. (Please don't mind, spend some time here, you'll see people with truly good sense of humor.)
Well, being a professor, you should be quite open about it. Forget about forum, post, remarks and all, and just think of it as a problem and its solution. Even if it is your work, you should be open to criticism.
Quote:| I would also like to note that this puzzle caused others to become members or the forum where it was posted. So maybe some good has come from it. |
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That may be because of this thread, as someone put it here.
Curiosity is a common trait to all human beings. But it always doesn't lead them to interesting discoveries.
Anyways, Welcome Professor!!! Enjoy the problems. 
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| « Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2009, 2:54am by R » |
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rmsgrey
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #21 on: Oct 24th, 2009, 6:45am » |
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It's the difference between a riddle (where the answer is obvious once you know it) and a puzzle (where the solution process is at least as important as the answer).
A good riddle has an element of "of course!" about the answer, which seems to be missing from this one - and a common problem with "guess what I'm thinking" types generally - of course, individual preferences and prejudices affect people's opinions of given problems - if you think sums of alphabetic indices, expressed in binary and run-length encoded are more obvious than, say, sums of ASCII values expressed in decimal, you'll find this problem more satisfying.
Missing 0 from the keypad isn't as great a hint as it might seem - 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 are all still included despite never coming up in any of the codes, and there are no buttons for 10 or more, despite it being possible to come up with phrases that encode to require them (unless you have a zero - in which case you can break up twenty-three, say into 90905). Either there are too many buttons on the keypad for the encoding method (over half of them are never used, and for a '9' to be used, the shortest 'words' is 20 letters, at least half of them 'z') or there are too few (to account for all possible strings, you need buttons to allow you to represent arbitrarily large "single digits") - or at least the wrong combination of buttons (relabelling '9' as '0' would let you encode any 'word')
tl;dr:
The answer seems too obscure for my taste. YMMV
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R
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins
« Reply #22 on: Oct 24th, 2009, 8:15am » |
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on Oct 24th, 2009, 6:45am, rmsgrey wrote:
if you think sums of alphabetic indices, expressed in binary and run-length encoded are more obvious than, say, sums of ASCII values expressed in decimal, you'll find this problem more satisfying.
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ASCII code is the first thing I tried. Whenever I tried to move to the alphabet indices's, the statement that the bishop was a computer nut, pulled me back to ASCII codes. A computer nut would never prefer indices's over ASCII code. Atleast I won't, because most of the burglar somehow have come across the English alphabet set but not much have seen the ASCII codes.
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Missing 0 from the keypad isn't as great a hint as it might seem - 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 are all still included despite never coming up in any of the codes, and there are no buttons for 10 or more, despite it being possible to come up with phrases that encode to require them (unless you have a zero - in which case you can break up twenty-three, say into 90905). Either there are too many buttons on the keypad for the encoding method (over half of them are never used, and for a '9' to be used, the shortest 'words' is 20 letters, at least half of them 'z') or there are too few (to account for all possible strings, you need buttons to allow you to represent arbitrarily large "single digits") - or at least the wrong combination of buttons (relabelling '9' as '0' would let you encode any 'word')
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A nice explanation of every thought that hit my head, while I was trying to solve it. You too seem to be doing a little bit of "mind-reading" rmsgrey.
Awesome explanation, rmsgrey!!! 
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| « Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2009, 8:24am by R » |
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