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Topic: Checkers (Read 1430 times) |
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ThudnBlunder
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Here are a few checkers problems.
The rules are as in US and UK: 8x8 board, only kings can move backwards one square, and of course capturing is compulsory.
1) I once won a small bet against a local checkers player who was not as good as he thought he was (although he was better than me). "I could give you a man start and you still couldn't beat me," I hustled. "Oh yeah?" growled the mark. "Yeah. OK, I'll give you two kings to my one, I'll set 'em up and you go first, OK?" I said. He accepted and lost. How?
2) In the position below, it is Red (moving down the board) to move. Is it possible for him to crown the next man he moves?
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mikedagr8
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #1 on: May 11th, 2008, 5:29am » |
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For 2, if I understood the question correctly (which I assume I didn't) if red moves the piece on 19 to 24, it must reach the end of the board and be kinged.
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #2 on: May 11th, 2008, 8:25am » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 5:29am, mikedagr8 wrote:| For 2, if I understood the question correctly (which I assume I didn't) if red moves the piece on 19 to 24, it must reach the end of the board and be kinged. |
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Yes Mike, it looks like you understood the question correctly.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have helped you get the right answer. 
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temporary
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #3 on: May 11th, 2008, 9:38am » |
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Red can clearly king the piece to the right, but he has lost the game. In checkers, the one who has more pieces wins unless the position is bad for one side and makes them lose a piece. I was told checkers is binary, but does anyone know how?
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #4 on: May 11th, 2008, 11:51am » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 9:38am, temporary wrote:| Red can clearly king the piece to the right, but he has lost the game. In checkers, the one who has more pieces wins unless the position is bad for one side and makes them lose a piece. |
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So you are an expert in checkers as well, are you? We are so lucky to have such a smart fella onboard.
The bigger army wins unless they have screwed up? Now we know. You must have been reading Sun Tzu.
As for the puzzle, you are wrong.
Yes, checkers is 'binary' in that one side moves first and the other side moves second.
I think you should stick to Rock, Paper, Scissors.
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| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 3:45am by ThudnBlunder » |
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temporary
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #5 on: May 11th, 2008, 12:17pm » |
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Thanks, I think. This puzzle is easy, because it is in easy. I know that you are the janitor of the hard puzzles, so yes your puzzle is also somewhat hard. Red loses and doesn't get a king if it is white's turn, but gets the king and still loses if it's red's turn. I still don't quite get how the order of turns makes it binary, but that is a very helpful hint.
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #6 on: May 11th, 2008, 12:25pm » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 12:17pm, temporary wrote:| Red loses and doesn't get a king if it is white's turn, but gets the king and still loses if it's red's turn. I still don't quite get how the order of turns makes it binary, but that is a very helpful hint. |
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It doesn't matter who loses.
I asked if Red can crown the next man he moves.
You say yes, I say no.
I don't know what you mean by checkers being 'binary'.
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| « Last Edit: May 11th, 2008, 4:04pm by ThudnBlunder » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #7 on: May 11th, 2008, 12:42pm » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 12:41pm, Hippo wrote:1. ... 25
2. ..? 24
3. ..? |
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?
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Hippo
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #8 on: May 11th, 2008, 12:43pm » |
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1) It seems to me I don't understand the rules ... King ... one step backwards? I don't want to google them now...
2)
1. ... 25
2. ?x? 24
3. ..? 28
4. ..? 32
Sorry ... the update was too slow ... 
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| « Last Edit: May 11th, 2008, 12:44pm by Hippo » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #9 on: May 11th, 2008, 12:49pm » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 12:43pm, Hippo wrote:1) It seems to me I don't understand the rules ... King ... one step backwards? I don't want to google them now...
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1) A king moves the same as an ordinary man, except it can also move backwards.
In some versions of checkers a king can move almost like a bishop in chess. But not here.
2) Sorry I don't understand your notation.
eg. moving from 31 to 27 would be denoted by 31-27
By the way, Red moves first.
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| « Last Edit: May 11th, 2008, 2:48pm by ThudnBlunder » |
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temporary
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #10 on: May 11th, 2008, 3:42pm » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 12:25pm, ThudanBlunder wrote:
I asked if Red can crown the next man he moves.
You say yes, I say no.
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No?! What logic gate are you using? Red kings the one to the right by moving to the lower right then the lower left of that(white's move doesn't matter).
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #11 on: May 11th, 2008, 4:15pm » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 3:42pm, temporary wrote:
No?! What logic gate are you using? Red kings the one to the right by moving to the lower right then the lower left of that(white's move doesn't matter). |
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I post puzzles like these in the hope that people like you will come along and make them look good.
Thanks for being so predictably obliging.
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Obob
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #12 on: May 11th, 2008, 7:21pm » |
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Hint: if somebody can capture a piece, they HAVE to. This includes if a king can capture a piece by moving backwards.
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temporary
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #13 on: May 11th, 2008, 8:27pm » |
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I know that. That is why starting with a king instead of a normal piece doesn't affect the game at all.
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Sealock
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #14 on: May 11th, 2008, 10:13pm » |
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If red's first move is 19-24, what strategy by white can prevent the piece beginning at square 19 from being kinged? (In other words, please demonstrate why the first response you received in this thread is incorrect, because at first glance it is very difficult to believe.)
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mikedagr8
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #15 on: May 12th, 2008, 3:23am » |
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on May 11th, 2008, 10:13pm, Sealock wrote:| If red's first move is 19-24, what strategy by white can prevent the piece beginning at square 19 from being kinged? (In other words, please demonstrate why the first response you received in this thread is incorrect, because at first glance it is very difficult to believe.) |
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Thanks now I seem to have understood.
The piece on 30 will have to be taken if played correctly; so the the piece on 19 will not get the opportunity to king.
If red moves 19-24 then white can simply move 30-25, and it must be taken. Hence red will not have moved its first piece and have it being kinged before the other.
Let's hope I understood more now and had a correct answer.
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| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 3:26am by mikedagr8 » |
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towr
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #16 on: May 12th, 2008, 3:32am » |
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So the answer to 2 is simply no?
If 21 moves, white takes it; if 19 moves, white can force 21 to move and be kinged first
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #17 on: May 12th, 2008, 3:40am » |
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on May 12th, 2008, 3:32am, towr wrote:So the answer to 2 is simply no?
If 21 moves, white takes it; if 19 moves, white can force 21 to move and be kinged first |
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The question didn't say anything about crowning 'first'.
It boils down to 'If Red plays 19-24 can he crown that man?'
on May 11th, 2008, 10:13pm, Sealock wrote:| If red's first move is 19-24, what strategy by white can prevent the piece beginning at square 19 from being kinged? (In other words, please demonstrate why the first response you received in this thread is incorrect, because at first glance it is very difficult to believe.) |
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All in good time.
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| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 3:41am by ThudnBlunder » |
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mikedagr8
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #18 on: May 12th, 2008, 4:10am » |
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If we assume red does move 19-23 I have found a way so that he doesn't. Still working on a way for 19-24.
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| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 4:12am by mikedagr8 » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #19 on: May 12th, 2008, 4:13am » |
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on May 12th, 2008, 4:10am, mikedagr8 wrote:| If we assume red does move 19-23 I have found a way so that he doesn't. Do we assumse red does move 19-24? |
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Yes, we can assume Red is trying to crown and is not on some secret kamikaze mission. 
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mikedagr8
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #20 on: May 12th, 2008, 4:16am » |
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on May 12th, 2008, 4:13am, ThudanBlunder wrote:
Yes, we can assume Red is trying to crown and is not on some secret kamikaze mission.
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So I guess we can assume then that white IS on some secret kamikaze mission. 
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towr
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #21 on: May 12th, 2008, 4:32am » |
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19-24
30-25, 21-30
29-25, 30-21
31-27, 24-31 and the game is over before red can crown
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| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 4:34am by towr » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #22 on: May 12th, 2008, 4:44am » |
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on May 12th, 2008, 4:32am, towr wrote: 19-24
30-25, 21-30
29-25, 30-21
31-27, 24-31 and the game is over before red can crown |
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Interesting. But that's not what I had in mind.
The game is over when the last man is captured.
And the last man is captured after Red crowns with 24-31.
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rmsgrey
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #23 on: May 12th, 2008, 5:24am » |
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For #2 (using ##-## for a normal move, and ##x##[x##[x##[...]]] for a [multiple] capture):
1) - 19-24
2) 29-25 24-28......
3) 30-26 21x30x23
4) 31-26 23x30......
But, it is indeed possible for red to crown the next man he moves - the real question is whether it's possible for white to prevent him.
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| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 5:25am by rmsgrey » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers
« Reply #24 on: May 12th, 2008, 5:35am » |
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on May 12th, 2008, 5:24am, rmsgrey wrote:
But, it is indeed possible for red to crown the next man he moves |
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The original question assumes 'against best play'. I thought that was obvious.
Your 3rd move for Red is illegal.
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| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 5:41am by ThudnBlunder » |
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